Identify Documents by the Pope that are infallible

[ALLFORHIM]

I have to tell you that after reading this thread I have decided to stick to the infallible list of faith and morals that is concrete and listed BTW.

Ill stick with what is in the bible I just dont understand why all of this has to be so difficult.
I dont think God meant it to be that difficult either.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I have to tell you that after reading this thread I have decided to stick to the infallible list of faith and morals that is concrete and listed BTW.

Ill stick with what is in the bible I just dont understand why all of this has to be so difficult.
I dont think God meant it to be that difficult either.

I don’t think it is very difficult at all. If you actually took the time to read the Encyclicals on moral and faith issue you can easily pointed it out.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church in fact cites its opposition to contraception on documents from the Second Vatican Council. The Sixteen Document is free online. We ourselves don’t have to understand a doctrine. Like how can God be Three Persons yet One God? I don’t understand it fully if I did, I would be God. Rather I put my faith in God and His Church.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I don’t think it is very difficult at all. If you actually took the time to read the Encyclicals on moral and faith issue you can easily pointed it out.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church in fact cites its opposition to contraception on documents from the Second Vatican Council. The Sixteen Document is free online. We ourselves don’t have to understand a doctrine. Like how can God be Three Persons yet One God? I don’t understand it fully if I did, I would be God. Rather I put my faith in God and His Church.

Thank you Manny

I agree there are certain doctrines that are really impossible to understand but we believe anyway because of our faith.

I just think that if the CC is going to claim infallibilty then they should really write down EXACTLY, in no uncertain laymen terms what those are. Period end of discussion. FOR ALL TO BE ABLE TO READ:thumbsup: For example: there should be a book labeled Infallible teachings of the CC for dummies

I have felt,after reading this thread, that the CC seems to want to hide them from the general public maybe because they themselves dont have a clear cut idea:shrug: because they arent written down for even the Magesterium to have a definitive answer.

Lets face it, no human is going to remember all this stuff unless it is written down and I include oral traditions in that as well. I dont care who you are Pope or not, no human can do that. There is just too much info. out there.

NOW, what I have just stated is just my HO and I am not making an argument for or against what I just said, just thinking out loud.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I have to tell you that after reading this thread I have decided to stick to the infallible list of faith and morals that is concrete and listed BTW.

Ill stick with what is in the bible I just dont understand why all of this has to be so difficult.
I dont think God meant it to be that difficult either.

Well because that would be a documented incomplete list. The Bible itself says that NOT everything Christ taught is found in the Bible. John 20:30

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Well because that would be a documented incomplete list. The Bible itself says that NOT everything Christ taught is found in the Bible. John 20:30

Yes I believe you but where is the documented Traditions that were handed down directly from an Apostle. The CC cant produce them–well at least I have discovered from here anyway. Like I said above–there is no way people are going to be able to remember all those Traditions orally unless someone wrote them down. Does the CC have documentation from an Apostle to any of the so called successors that directly links an oral Tradition to that Apostle?

However, this is off topic so you probably shouldnt respond That is a whole other thread. SORRY back on topic.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Yes I believe you but where is the documented Traditions that were handed down directly from an Apostle. The CC cant produce them–well at least I have discovered from here anyway. Like I said above–there is no way people are going to be able to remember all those Traditions orally unless someone wrote them down. Does the CC have documentation from an Apostle to any of the so called successors that directly links an oral Tradition to that Apostle?

However, this is off topic so you probably shouldnt respond That is a whole other thread. SORRY back on topic.

Well they can be found discussed in the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church. Topics like the Trinity, Divinity of Christ, Divinity of the Holy Spirit, Purgatory, Communion of Saints, Forgiveness of Sins after Baptism…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Well they can be found discussed in the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church. Topics like the Trinity, Divinity of Christ, Divinity of the Holy Spirit, Purgatory, Communion of Saints, Forgiveness of Sins after Baptism…

Yeah but that is stuff that can be found in the bible, except purgatory. The forgiveness of sins is intrepretation not oral Tradition.

 

[Atemi]

The Vatican does maintain a list of Magisterial or Dogmatic statements by Popes and Councils.

They have the set, yes, but they will not tell us infallibly all the ones that are infallible.

If anyone can do this it is the Pope or the bishops in council, but after 2000 years they still refuse.

A list of these would not be an infallible list because infallibility applies to teachings on matter of Faith and Morals **NOT **to documents.

So you do not even know which Magisterial or Dogmatic statements are infallible either.

That is a serious quandry.

Which was the same thing I said in my first post that Documents are never infallible, but that they can and do contain Infallible teaching.

We don’t need any document, but only a statement that infallibly lists all the past infallible papal pronouncements.

Since a Council already (supposedly) clearly defined when ex-cathedra is taking place, surely it would be easy for them to gather all the past pronouncements that qualify and infallibly endorse them.

Until then, we will have exactly what we see in this thread: differing opinions among even the most devout of Catholics.

Is this the way the RCC would prefer it be?

…

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

They have the set, yes, but they will not tell us infallibly all the ones that are infallible.

If anyone can do this it is the Pope or the bishops in council, but after 2000 years they still refuse.

So you do not even know which Magisterial or Dogmatic statements are infallible either.

That is a serious quandry.

We don’t need any document, but only a statement that infallibly lists all the past infallible papal pronouncements.

Since a Council already (supposedly) clearly defined when ex-cathedra is taking place, surely it would be easy for them to gather all the past pronouncements that qualify and infallibly endorse them.

Until then, we will have exactly what we see in this thread: differing opinions among even the most devout of Catholics.

Is this the way the RCC would prefer it be?

…

A clear and precise summary and explanation in “layman’s terms” of the Doctrines and Dogmas of the Catholic Faith is readily available to anyone.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Thank you Manny

I have felt,after reading this thread, that the CC seems to want to hide them from the general public maybe because they themselves dont have a clear cut idea:shrug: because they arent written down for even the Magesterium to have a definitive answer.

If they were hidden then how did I find out about them? The Documents of Second Vatican Council is available, as well as the Papal Encyclicals. People will forget that is why we have re-learn them. How often have you re-read the Bible time and time again. Well, we don’t remember everything in Scripture so we always have to re-read it.

If you happen to be priest or minister, who have done this all their life could probably remember them.

 

[Atemi]

A clear and precise summary and explanation in “layman’s terms” of the Doctrines and Dogmas of the Catholic Faith is readily available to anyone.

All that is available is a multitude of Catholic opinions.

That serves no prupose as can be seen by the many differing opinions of even the most well catechised Catholics in this very thread.

…

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

All that is available is a multitude of Catholic opinions.

That serves no prupose as can be seen by the many differing opinions of even the most well catechised Catholics in this very thread.

…

I’m sorry but I do not agree that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is just a collection of “Opinions”. It is a document issued by the Magisterium, summarizing the Infallible teaching of the Catholic Church.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

If they were hidden then how did I find out about them?

Probably as long as their are not too many to remember or they are so involved(with many rules).Im talking about the CC infallible and oral Tradition teachings. Honestly, I think someone would be hard pressed to have the whole bible memorized and completely understand it and be able to rattle off a verse or two I dont think anyone could memorize the CCC either. TOO MANY WORDS LOL
As far as not having teachings written down,that is a VERY dangerous practice because that means it can be changed just by someone else intrepreting it different(We all know about differing intrepretations )

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I’m sorry but I do not agree that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is just a collection of “Opinions”. It is a document issued by the Magisterium, summarizing the Infallible teaching of the Catholic Church.

WAIT Im confused!!! The CCC says it has the infallible teachings from the Pope?

Well why didnt you guys just say that!!! So everything I have been asking for is in the CCC–including ex-cathedra statements(stated as so) and oral Tradition with direct links to which Apostle said them?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

WAIT Im confused!!! The CCC says it has the infallible teachings from the Pope?

Well why didnt you guys just say that!!! So everything I have been asking for is in the CCC–including ex-cathedra statements(stated as so) and oral Tradition with direct links to which Apostle said them?

Oral Apostolic Tradition is not traceable to an individual Apostle. The Apostles and their successors did not have Catechisms, handbooks, or even Bibles for that matter. All they had was the ability granted them by Christ, guided by the Holy Spirit to teach the faith orally. Independent of each other, but never opposed or in conflict with each other. They were able to teach the faith wherever they were, without any list, and never teach error. That is the negative chrism of Infallibility. They are prevented from teaching error on matters of faith and morals. Collectively no matter where they were, they were the Church in it’s role as teacher of the Gospel.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Probably as long as their are not too many to remember or they are so involved(with many rules).Im talking about the CC infallible and oral Tradition teachings. Honestly, I think someone would be hard pressed to have the whole bible memorized and completely understand it and be able to rattle off a verse or two I dont think anyone could memorize the CCC either. TOO MANY WORDS LOL
As far as not having teachings written down,that is a VERY dangerous practice because that means it can be changed just by someone else intrepreting it different(We all know about differing intrepretations )

Considering that I will be going to Seminary after the Army for my priesthood discernment I have no doubt I will be given the time to study Papal writings, Vatican II documents, and others.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Oral Apostolic Tradition is not traceable to an individual Apostle.

I agree 100%

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Considering that I will be going to Seminary after the Army for my priesthood discernment I have no doubt I will be given the time to study Papal writings, Vatican II documents, and others.

Hey Manny,

Would you be my personal priest After you have been ordained can I come to you with any question? After all, I feel we already have a relationship and I feel I can trust you.

 

[SFLCatholic]

All that is available is a multitude of Catholic opinions.

That serves no prupose as can be seen by the many differing opinions of even the most well catechised Catholics in this very thread.

…

So what you are espousing is that Jesus’ bestowal upon Peter as the Foundation of His Church in Mat 16:18 and the clear historical fact acknowledging Apostolic Succession is opinion?

 

[SFLCatholic]

Does one of those Magisterial statements include an infallible list of all the past infallible papal pronouncements?

If not, we are still dealing with the differing opinions of Catholic after Catholic.

…

There is no differing of opinions since all Catholics are unified under the teachings of the Magisterium.

You see it as differing opinions because you have renounced the One True Faith and are looking for any angle to attack it.