Identify the heresy

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It’s a beautiful hymn, not heretical in the least, but I have to say it sounds (to me) a lot like an Entrance hymn. The phrase “receive the food” in the context does not make it a Eucharistic hymn.
 
On further reflection, I think I understand the OP’s point. The hymn seems to revolve around Word, not in any figurative sense but in the literal sense of speaking, teaching, understanding, promises, plans, authority, and truth. These elements by themselves might suggest the primacy of Scripture and ring alarm bells, as the OP wrote.

But they do not stand alone or even take center stage. Rather, the hymn weaves in many other aspects of Christian living, like faith/belief, acts/deeds, love, purity of mind and heart, our call to holiness, the power of grace, and, at the very end, the mission and ultimate oneness of the church.

The hymn doesn’t cover all of Catholicism, but there is a lot in it that is Catholic. I like it.

Thanks, Deacon Jeff, for posting those verses.
 
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You don’t understand my point.

There was a school of thought, that became a heresy, that Jesus was not fully Divine. These people theorised Jesus was human and only the adopted son of God, a prophet, Jesus was some kind of mystic God worked through, any number of heresies were at work about Jesus not being Divine.

Now they said, because of this , Jesus , being human and not divine, that Mary could not possibly be the mother of God, of a divine being. Mary was only the mother of Christ. Mary was the mother of a human that people rejected as the Son Of God
Christ was the name given at that time to the resurrected Jesus. But people were still working out what this really meant.

So a Council got together and declared Mary the Mother of God. Mary was the mother of a divine being. As well as a human.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MODEFEAT.htm
 
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They sing the Dan Schutte Glory at my local Newman center all the time. It sounds fine and is a good pick for one piano and two college girls without voice training needing to lead the singing.

It’s also very nice for any children’s Mass where the kids are singing it.
 
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I think nowadays Catholics think of Christ as being the same as Jesus who is definitely God, so the distinction between “Christ” and “God” doesn’t ring a bell with us today the same way as it did back when there was an actual debate over the divinity of Jesus.

Therefore, a Catholic today who wasn’t schooled in theological history would see “Mother of Christ” as equivalent to “Mother of God”.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
It’s also very nice for any children’s Mass where the kids are singing it.
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I remember the masses of my childhood well. We sang hymns we had practiced through the week. Some were traditional others were contemporary kids songs. Our music teacher provided the musical accompaniment. They couldn’t pay the church musician to come in weekly. Sister didn’t play the piano, so it was just her and her guitar. 🙂

She is still living. Very old and very sick, but still living. She was/is a good holy woman. May God bless her and keep her.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I think nowadays Catholics think of Christ as being the same as Jesus who is definitely God,
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Yes, I am sure. We all do.
However, the reference was specifically about just that. The heresy. In a group of people declaring Mary the mother of Christ and not God, they were deliberately rejecting the Divinity of Jesus.

And we must be extremely exact in our terminology, and teach others the why, who what and how.

Mary is the Mother of God, as declared by a 5th Century Council.

Mary also requires her rightful place in giving birth to the Word Incarnate.

There is a modern day heresy we must be very careful not to fall into, monositism. And it has to do with Jesus fully human nature being denied or not accepted.

We must keep our eyes on the fact that Jesus is fully Human and fully Divine. And teach this to others with no excuses. No leniency. Otherwise the same heresies besetting the Early Church will settle to roost again.

Education, not ignorance in these matters. Looking at a few other threads, there are people who do not realise Jesus was incarnate with a fully human nature.
Is that a result of poor education? Poor catechism? A reluctance to accept a human was tortured, crucified and died. And it did matter.
Rather then people thinking and saying it didn’t matter because Jesus is God.

We teach people the real fact of consecration and what the Eucharist is.
We must, by the same token, teach other things, like Mary is the mother of God.

Christ, simply means in Jewish, the anointed one. The anointed of the Lord. Priests and kings were anointed.
@bartholemew might say more about the use of the word.
 
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I don’t really understand what your objection is considering the OP said that the title “Mother of Christ” was anathema and mentioned the council.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I don’t really understand what your objection is considering the OP said that the title “Mother of Christ” was anathema and mentioned the council.
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Indeed, anruari said it first, said it well, AND connected it to the topic of the thread, in Post #4:
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Identify the heresy Liturgy and Sacraments
The issue is not with the multiple ways in which Christ is present. It with the specific language. “To receive the food of your Holy Word” John chapter 6 covers in great detail that Jesus realpresence in the Eucharist is absolutely true. Most protestants reject this refering to Jon 1:1-2 to say that the Word (Logos) became flesh and came among us, therefore reading the Bible is complying with the prescription that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. To draw a parallel. In the early chur…
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All subsequent posts regarding the title “Mother of Christ” have taken it off topic.
 
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The focus of this thread is too much on the “can” and not on the “should.”

The issue involved in the various examples given is what the old theological censure of sapiens haeresim/errorem was for. As the Catholic Encyclopedia describes it, it was defined as follows:
Propositions thus noted may be correct in themselves, but owing to various circumstances of time, place, and persons, are prudently taken to present a signification which is either heretical or erroneous.
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I could see how using a Presbyterian song about being fed by the word in that way as a Communion hymn could lead those listening to the wrong idea and why, in light of the fact that “love always protects”, it should be prudently excluded.

The counter-argument is that in the context of a Catholic Mass, it would be natural to give it an orthodox interpretation.

But there are so many other solidly Catholic hymns to chose from without the potential for this issue, that while this hymn “can” be used, there’s no reason it “should” be used.

That being said, this type of pastoral approach has generally been long abandoned, so I wouldn’t expect any changes.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
They sing the Dan Schutte Glory at my local Newman center all the time. It sounds fine and is a good pick for one piano and two college girls without voice training needing to lead the singing.

It’s also very nice for any children’s Mass where the kids are singing it.
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I can’t the get the My Little Pony theme song out of my head everything time I hear Schutte’s version. I’m glad the few parishes that used to sign it by me have all stopped. It’s major distraction for me.

And, I honestly, get bugged every time I hear any of Schutte’s hymns at mass. It really bothers me that he’s an ex-priest who left the priesthood and is “married” to a man, yet still allowed to be proudly featured by select Catholic Hymnals.
 
To spread such gossip is a sin. It’s either rash judgement, detraction, or calumny.
 
phil19034 said:
And, I honestly, get bugged every time I hear any of Schutte’s hymns at mass.
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The only thing that concerns me about his music is that I don’t like it. If we choose all of our music from only the morally pure, faithful Catholics, we’ll be losing a lot of powerful hymns.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
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anruari:
Now there is no doubt that as Jesus is Christ, that Mary was His mother that she is indeed the Mother of Christ,
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This was a heresy. Mary is the mother of God.

To say Mary is the mother of Christ denies the Divinity of Jesus. It only acknowledges the humanity of Jesus

Therefore a Council was called to deny this heresy and in fact declare Mary too be the mother of God.
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To call our Blessed Mother the “Mother of Christ” is certainly not a heresy. It would be a heresy to use that title in such a way as to deny that She is the Mother of God.

Read through the Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the Roman Ritual
https://sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/59-litanies.html
Holy Mary, pray for us.* (After each invocation: “Pray for us.”)

Holy Mother of God,

Holiest of all virgins,

Mother of Christ,

Mother of God’s gift to men,

Mother, all pure,

Mother, all chaste,

Mother inviolate,

Mother undefiled,

&c. &c.
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I count 49 different titles in that Litany. There are many, many different titles of the Blessed Mother in the Church’s calendar.

Using one title does not, in any way, deny that She is the Mother of God.
 
I’m sorry you have such a problem with Schutte’s music. It’s never bothered me in the 40 years I’ve been listening to it. Plus, the way things are going I thank God that I have a Mass near me that I can attend, and I don’t let myself get hung up over what song people sing or all the other externals that people on here seem to focus on ad infnitum.
 
Thank you father!

If anyone is interested, this is the particular anathema in question:
  1. If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh, let him be anathema .
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As Father said, it seems it’s the denial of Mary as Mother of God that is the problem. Not just the title of Mother of Christ.

Hopefully we can get back on topic now!
 
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