Idol worship

[Hokomai]

Does, or did, idol worship ever actually exist? Is there any verified case of people in organised groups thinking that a material object is actually a God? What does the verification consist of? I’m not here talking about the Eucharist, but things more typically called idols. I am from the south pacific and I know many of the things called ‘gods’ by people who do not make or use them are not considered to be gods by those who do.

 

[christosdavid]

Does, or did, idol worship ever actually exist? Is there any verified case of people in organised groups thinking that a material object is actually a God? What does the verification consist of? I’m not here talking about the Eucharist, but things more typically called idols. I am from the south pacific and I know many of the things called ‘gods’ by people who do not make or use them are not considered to be gods by those who do.

Sure, still exists. I just returned from Japan, there are still many gods there. These gods have lots of statues but it is largely in the small idols placed in shops that are retained in modern culture, Ebisu’s statue is placed in many economic centres to increase prosperity.

My mother in law has a sheet of paper with the pictures of several gods in the family shrine who are prayed before for her ancestors.

Of course, there are many ancient examples, the greeks had statues in all their shrines and temples, it was sacraligeous of Achilles to profane the idols and temple of Apollo.

The caananites worshipped the asharoth fertility goddess (spouse of Baal) for which there is archeological evidence.

At one point, when Caligula was Emperor (and god) he wished for his statue to be placed in the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem (which he fortunately was persuaded out of).

Was this what you wanted?

 

[Hokomai]

Sure, still exists. I just returned from Japan, there are still many gods there. These gods have lots of statues but it is largely in the small idols placed in shops that are retained in modern culture, Ebisu’s statue is placed in many economic centres to increase prosperity.

My mother in law has a sheet of paper with the pictures of several gods in the family shrine who are prayed before for her ancestors.

Of course, there are many ancient examples, the greeks had statues in all their shrines and temples, it was sacraligeous of Achilles to profane the idols and temple of Apollo.

The caananites worshipped the asharoth fertility goddess (spouse of Baal) for which there is archeological evidence.

At one point, when Caligula was Emperor (and god) he wished for his statue to be placed in the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem (which he fortunately was persuaded out of).

Was this what you wanted?

Thank you but not exactly. The last example is the clearest. Mr Caligula presumably did not intend people to think that the statue WAS him, as he was somewhere else. The statue REPRESENTED him, just as statues in a Catholic church represent saints. I believe your mother-in-law will not consider that the objects she venerates in reference to her ancestors ARE her ancestors. Or does she?

 

[christosdavid]

Is your point that all statues represent the god rather than physically are the god? In most cases yes, I would agree.

Some nature religions actually hold the physical object to be the god. In Shinto, deers are gods, trees are gods, rivers, mountains etc… pantheism similarly.

So God says in Hosea, “I am a tall, green pine tree!” due to the nature worship of the 8th BCE. He wanted Israel to return to him, thus, he is ‘better’ than ‘mere’ nature.

 

[JustaServant]

You bring up a good point. Statues and pictures of the gods were the photographs of the day. Since God is a spirit, He cannot be shaped into a likeness. Thus we have the first Commandment.
Were the images of the gods based on a memory of actual human beings, such as Romulus and Remus? Augustine seemed to believe so.

 

[DCNBILL]

It would seem that there are those who worship this Idol.

enchantedlearning.com/math/money/bills/one/

 

[christosdavid]

It would seem that there are those who worship this Idol.

enchantedlearning.com/math/money/bills/one/

good one

 

[JonNC]

Does, or did, idol worship ever actually exist? Is there any verified case of people in organised groups thinking that a material object is actually a God? What does the verification consist of? I’m not here talking about the Eucharist, but things more typically called idols. I am from the south pacific and I know many of the things called ‘gods’ by people who do not make or use them are not considered to be gods by those who do.

Wouldn’t the golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai in Exodus qualify as an idol, which was worshipped (until Moses pitched a fit )?

Jon

 

[Hokomai]

Wouldn’t the golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai in Exodus qualify as an idol, which was worshipped (until Moses pitched a fit )?

Jon

Yes but did they really think it was itself a god, that is, a being with power. Or did it represent something spiritual?

 

[Sam_777]

At the beginning of Islam in Arabian Peninsula within Mecca city, there were 360 idols (at least one for each Arabian tribe to worship).

Read more here.

 

[Hokomai]

At the beginning of Islam in Arabian Peninsula within Mecca city, there were 360 idols (at least one for each Arabian tribe to worship).

Read more here.

Mpst interesting. I’m still in search though of a clear example in which people consider an object they venerate to actually be a god, and not merely a symbol of a god, or a point of focus for prayer. These 360 idols seem to be symbolic.

 

[FaithJoy]

Mpst interesting. I’m still in search though of a clear example in which people consider an object they venerate to actually be a god, and not merely a symbol of a god, or a point of focus for prayer. These 360 idols seem to be symbolic.

Money,power,and greed are not symbolic. They are real idols of worship. In today’s world,it would be hard to find an actual statue that would be worshiped because people are more educated. But, I wouldn’t say it wouldn’t exist.

 

[Marybeloved]

Mpst interesting. I’m still in search though of a clear example in which people consider an object they venerate to actually be a god, and not merely a symbol of a god, or a point of focus for prayer. These 360 idols seem to be symbolic.

Perhaps idolatry means simply worshiping idols of false gods as manifestations of the gods themselves?

-Didn’t the pagan Meccans believe that the Kaaba stone was itself a god as it fell from “heaven”?

-Anyway, I’m not sure, but there’s a story in the deuterocanonical books, about Daniel of the OT. The people would leave offerings of food to the idols of the country (not sure if it was Babylonian or Persian empire) believing that the gods (idols) would eat them during the night as the food would be gone in the morning. Daniel, knowing that it was obviously false, sets a trap for the con-priests of the false gods and sprinkles flour on the floor as they leave the temple/shrine. In the morning, the food is gone but footprints of the priests are left on the floor- It’s eventually discovered that the priests have a secret pathway to the shrine in which they pass and take the offerings for themselves and disappear w/out anyone knowing. It seems that the people believed that the idols were really alive/would come alive and eat their food? Perhaps that shows that the idols were themselves actual manifestations of the gods therefore the gods themselves in the eyes of the people?..not sure though.

 

[BrianGular]

Mpst interesting. I’m still in search though of a clear example in which people consider an object they venerate to actually be a god, and not merely a symbol of a god, or a point of focus for prayer. These 360 idols seem to be symbolic.

Merriam-Webster define it this way:

“Idol: a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly: a false god”

As far as I can tell, no pagan religion worships the idol itself, but rather the false god represented by the idol.

I think it’s interesting to consider that the Hebrew word translated as “idol” in the Old Testament (e.g. Leviticus 19:4) has, for its root meaning, “good for nothing, a thing of no value, good for naught.” The implication, then, is that an idol is useless. My interpretation of this is that this is God’s way of saying, “Don’t waste your time worshiping nothing.”

 

[TypesAndShadows]

Talk of idols always makes me think of the household gods, especially the Roman lares and the similar objects found elsewhere. I think these often had an ancestral spirit element. There clearly seems to have been a sense in which people considered the little figures to be or contain the gods/spirits. For example, the figures had to go with the family when they moved, to keep the gods with them; the figures were brought out and moved around to keep them present at things like family meals; food was offered to the figures.

This has been a recurring practice throughout history, and very resistant to attempts to stamp it out. It is very domestic, which was part of its tenacity, and often has an element of ancestral worship, which makes it very personal. I think this is the sort of thing that you see recurring again and again throughout the Old Testament, despite condemnation, along with the other main household god, the god of the hearth who was generally female.

 

[Lokabrenna]

I think many modern Pagans would be surprised to learn that they worship their statues! Statues are just objects made of wood, gypsum, metal, a representation of a deity, not the actual deity itself. Sometimes a natural object (ie. a tree) might be seen as the “home” of a deity or spirit, and venerated as such, but worshiping the tree itself would be like worshiping the floor of my house.

 

[amber_lux]

the figures had to go with the family when they moved, to keep the gods with them; the figures were brought out and moved around to keep them present at things like family meals; food was offered to the figures.

Over time, the representation of the deity builds a charge from the deity. As this charge builds, the connection between the deity, the representation of the deity, and the veneraters increases. Thus, rather than starting having to create a new connection each time one moves, one takes the current connection when one moves.

Amber

 

[mwok]

St. Thomas Aquinas wrote that some people worshipped things that were bigger than themselves and did not understand, such as the Sun, Moon or stars without realizing that there was a greater being that made the objects they worshipped.

 

[Hokomai]

So are churches that believe in the Real Presence unique in worshiping a material object in the belief that it is (has become) God? **

 

[Marybeloved]

So are churches that believe in the Real Presence unique in worshiping a material object in the belief that it is (has become) God? **Well, I suppose Proetastants do worship a material being that is believed to have been God- All Christians do- His name is Jesus!