Idolatry In Brazil?

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mommyof4 said:
What’s the link supposed to open up to? I just got a page where I’m supposed to register in order to read anything. I don’t want to do that.
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It has been modified now, I forgot the original was a place for members only.
WP
 
juno24 said:
I’m having trouble finding where in the article it states that Our Lady of Aparecida is worshipped as a god. Can you point it out to me?
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It was crowned as if it were a person and a robe was placed upon it and it was given a palace to reside in.
Golden Calf.
WP
 
sandmountainsli said:
It was crowned as if it were a person and a robe was placed upon it and it was given a palace to reside in.
Golden Calf.
WP
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The statue was placed in a church, not a ‘palace’. Many statues are, including the compulsory crucifix which must be in every Catholic Church (no such requirement for depictions of Mary, and I’ve seen numerous Catholic churches that DON’T have any statues or pictures of her!).

And the Queen of England and every other monarch in existence has been crowned. It shows Queenship, not deity, since she is the mother of the King of Kings that automatically makes her Queen Mother.

I’d compare it to the adorning with gold of the Ark of the Covenant in OT times, since like the Ark Mary also housed the Word of God and the Bread of Life (prefigured by the manna of the OT, a jar of which was placed in the Ark). Would you call the adornment and veneration given to the Ark idolatry as well?
 
LilyM said:
The statue was placed in a church, not a ‘palace’. Many statues are, including the compulsory crucifix which must be in every Catholic Church (no such requirement for depictions of Mary, and I’ve seen numerous Catholic churches that DON’T have any statues or pictures of her!).

And the Queen of England and every other monarch in existence has been crowned. It shows Queenship, not deity, since she is the mother of the King of Kings that automatically makes her Queen Mother.

I’?
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Virgin Mary is NOT Patron Saint of Brazil, this statue itself is!
A statue is a saint? Humbug! I say put a stake thru it’s heart and be done with it.
WP
 
sandmountainsli said:
Virgin Mary is NOT Patron Saint of Brazil, this statue itself is!
A statue is a saint? Humbug! I say put a stake thru it’s heart and be done with it.
WP
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Utter rot - the patroness of Brazil is indeed the Virgin Mary, albeit under the title of ‘Our Lady of Aparecida’, NOT that particular hunk of wood. Just like Elizabeth II of England is Queen of that country, NOT the photos and paintings of her that hang up in every Town Hall in the country.

And I’m sure Jesus really loves you for suggesting stabbing a statue of his mother - about as much as you’d love me if I ripped up and stamped on a photo of your mother!

Again, Mary is adorned and honoured as the Ark of the Covenant was in OT times by the Jews, why would she not be worthy of equal honour, since she too bore within her the Word of God and the Living Bread? Answer me that!
 
sandmountainsli said:
It was crowned as if it were a person and a robe was placed upon it and it was given a palace to reside in.
Golden Calf.
WP
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I just wrote a rather lengthy reply then closed the browser window by mistake! Argh! I hate when I do that.

Anyway, the Wikipedia article is missing some necessary info.

See this site to fill in some of the blanks.

Our Lady is the patron saint of the Americas. When the men were sent to fish, it was not fishing season so there was not much fish to be caught. They prayed to God that they find fish. They prayed to the Blessed Mother that she show them where the fish would be. After they caught the head of the statue, they continued praying to find fish, and their prayers were answered. They attributed the miracle to the Blessed Mother’s intercession.
As part of their veneration of the Blessed Mother, the statue was restored and put in a place of prominence. They are not worshiping the statue; they are continuing their devotion to the Blessed Mother.
 
sandmountainsli said:
Virgin Mary is NOT Patron Saint of Brazil, this statue itself is!
A statue is a saint? Humbug! I say put a stake thru it’s heart and be done with it.
WP
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When I show you a picture of my family and say the lady in blue is my mother, the old man next to her is my father…

would you ever in your mind think that the picture itself is my real mom and dad or you would automatically think this is a way to visualize my mom and dad? 😃

Yah…I know what you think…it is just picture!
Why can’t you realize the same thing with the statue,the cross, etc…?

It ain’t iolatry. 😉
 
I have a P38 Can opener on my key ring and have had for several years, since putting the opener on my keyring I have had great success in my life. I did not find it in a river but rather it was given to me by a customer.
What if I were to plate the can opener in gold and begin demanding that my church place it above the altar so that it may be venerated as it is obviously symbolic of the power of Our Lord to “Open” our eyes and the truth to us?
Would I be accused of idolatry or would all simply say my actions were logical and symbolic?
WP
 
sandmountainsli said:
Virgin Mary is NOT Patron Saint of Brazil, this statue itself is!
A statue is a saint? Humbug! I say put a stake thru it’s heart and be done with it.
WP
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Ugh! its not the statue, its the person the statue represents.

Where I live, we have a very old and very historical statue of the Blessed Virgin, we call her La Conquistadora’.

traditioninaction.org/religious/a008rp.htm

I first saw her when I was a very little girl, her clothing and jewels fascinated me. Later her history fascinated me even more. Even though I have visited her chapel many times, seen her in procession through the streets of Santa Fe, and I love her long history, never once did I think the statue itself is anything more than a statue. I’m not venerating a wooden statue, I’m thinking of the Blessed Virgin. I’m respectful of all images of her. La Conquistador though, is special also because of her history, over 350 years of it. So the statue also represents the faith of Catholics in New Mexico over those centuries. You will probably be offended I call the statue ‘her’. I see people do exactly the same thing with pictures of their family, referring to them by name or pronoun instead of ‘it’. I don’t think they are making an idol of paper and ink. They obviously are thinking of the person the picture represents, looking through the paper and ink to that person’s relationship to them.

MarysRoses
 
sandmountainsli said:
I have a P38 Can opener on my key ring and have had for several years, since putting the opener on my keyring I have had great success in my life. I did not find it in a river but rather it was given to me by a customer.
What if I were to plate the can opener in gold and begin demanding that my church place it above the altar so that it may be venerated as it is obviously symbolic of the power of Our Lord to “Open” our eyes and the truth to us?
Would I be accused of idolatry or would all simply say my actions were logical and symbolic?
WP
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When you think of Jesus and visualize Him, would you think of Him as a Can Opener or a man? 😃
 
sandmountainsli said:
I have a P38 Can opener on my key ring and have had for several years, since putting the opener on my keyring I have had great success in my life. I did not find it in a river but rather it was given to me by a customer.
What if I were to plate the can opener in gold and begin demanding that my church place it above the altar so that it may be venerated as it is obviously symbolic of the power of Our Lord to “Open” our eyes and the truth to us?
Would I be accused of idolatry or would all simply say my actions were logical and symbolic?
WP
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Faulty analogy. You’re talking about a mere mechanical object with no deeper significance, we’re talking about a sculptural representation of a very real woman, who by the way was playing her part in helping bring about the salvation of all humankind well before anyone made any picture or statue of her 😉

If you ever go into a British or Australian courtroom, the Royal Coat of Arms is always displayed (symbolising the power of the Queen, who is the head of our justice system). And everyone who enters or leaves that courtroom bows to it.
 
I suppose the John Knox in me is shocked and repulsed by the attachment to the statue itself and it’s “crowning”.
WP
 
sandmountainsli said:
I have a P38 Can opener on my key ring and have had for several years, since putting the opener on my keyring I have had great success in my life. I did not find it in a river but rather it was given to me by a customer.
What if I were to plate the can opener in gold and begin demanding that my church place it above the altar so that it may be venerated as it is obviously symbolic of the power of Our Lord to “Open” our eyes and the truth to us?
Would I be accused of idolatry or would all simply say my actions were logical and symbolic?
WP
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Well if you had say had really lousy business and no one lived in your town to buy your product and for some reason you decided to pray to the Holy P38 Can Opener of Antioch that it would send you business. Then latter that day a strange man gave you a P38 Can Opener and then that day dozens of families moved into your town to buy your product then I’d say you’d have a closer analogy.

Then if you had went to the local church of the Anitochian P38 can opener and told them the story then they would likely want to plate your P38 in gold themselves.

Still they would likely view your personal P38 as sign or symbol but would probably still give credit to the Holy P38 Can Opener of Antioch.
 
sandmountainsli said:
I suppose the John Knox in me is shocked and repulsed by the attachment to the statue itself and it’s “crowning”.
WP
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It’s not attachment to the statue itself, any more than the respect given to the Shroud of Turin or the relics of the Cross that the church possesses is attachment to those inanimate objects. They are all expressions of attachment to Our Lady herself and to Christ himself.

Believe me, if Mary were alive here on Earth we’d give her statues not a second thought and we’d pay attention to the real human being. Read Ignatius of Antioch, who was a disciple and contemporary of the Apostle John - he writes of people flocking to visit Mary while she was alive!

Being we can’t offer gifts to her personally, we do what we can to show our respect in other ways.

Christ - since we do believe he is alive and present in the Eucharist, we DO pay supreme honour and worship to the Real Presence - hence Eucharistic Adoration and Eucharistic processions, displaying the Blessed Sacrament for worship in ornate gold vessels called monstrances and so on.
 
sandmountainsli said:
It was crowned as if it were a person and a robe was placed upon it and it was given a palace to reside in.
Golden Calf.
WP
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Do kids worship Frosty the Snowman because they put a scarf, hat, carrot nose and buttons on him? 🙂

Point being, simply putting clothes on a statue is no more “worship” than dressing someone (or even dressing your pet). It’s an attempt to show respect.
 
LilyM said:
Believe me, if Mary were alive here on Earth we’d give her statues not a second thought and we’d pay attention to the real human being. Read Ignatius of Antioch, who was a disciple and contemporary of the Apostle John - he writes of people flocking to visit Mary while she was alive!
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Is it mention in Jurgen’s Book Three Volume Set “Faith of Our Fathers?” I haven’t gotten to it. If you can, can you quote it here. 😃
 
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