Idolatry: The Catholic Ricky Bobby Story

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Out of respect for the Catholic Church and my Catholic friends, I am putting this in the non-Catholic area. It was with joy that I found for myself that the Catholic Church and most of her members do not practice Idolatry nor sanction it. However, I just watched a show on EWTN that I can’t find a way to describe the practices of it as anything but Idolatry.

The show in question was titled Miracles of the Child Jesus. Maybe you can find when it runs again or find it on the internet to see it for yourself.

This older couple was in Europe, possibly Italy and the show was about a statue there of the child Jesus. They told stories of people praying to the “Child Jesus” and miracles happening as a result of that prayer. Since, as we all know, Jesus grew beyond childhood and became a man and still lives today, it’s not possible to pray to the “Child Jesus” unless you’re praying to the statue.

There are those that claim that the church teaches idolatry but I’m not one of those. I’ve already suspected that some of her members were very close to the edge of practicing Idolatry and I’m pretty sure this show confirmed that there are those that are over the edge.

The television had been on for a while before I noticed the show and I might have accomplished recording it on the DVR. If that happens to be true, I will try and watch it again, when I have time and see if my conclusion changes.

I’m curious if others have noticed that some members of the church have gone beyond the bounds of mere veneration and pleas for intercession into actual idolatry?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Never seen idol worship in person. Nevertheless, sounds like your talking about Bob and Penny Lord. Its probably in here…

bobandpennylord.com/videolist.htm
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You are correct, it is Bob and Penny Lord. Specifically this video: bobandpennylord.com/childjesus.htm#Santo_Bambino__Lama_dei_Peligni

The description is interesting and part of it reads: See a little image of the Baby Jesus, called the Santo
Bambino, which has been responsible for many
miracles in the Abruzzi area, including being spared
from a plague which attacked many areas of Italy.
 
No - do not be so quick to presume that any special power is attributed to the statue as a statue. Rather it is the real person - in this case Christ - whose power it is that operates and who is praised.

True Jesus outgrew his infancy, but then Jesus also rose again after His crucifixion - does this mean we cannot properly venerate or pray in front images of Him crucified? By your logic surely they must be idols too.
 
Brandall said:
Out of respect for the Catholic Church and my Catholic friends, I am putting this in the non-Catholic area. It was with joy that I found for myself that the Catholic Church and most of her members do not practice Idolatry nor sanction it. However, I just watched a show on EWTN that I can’t find a way to describe the practices of it as anything but Idolatry.

The show in question was titled Miracles of the Child Jesus. Maybe you can find when it runs again or find it on the internet to see it for yourself.

This older couple was in Europe, possibly Italy and the show was about a statue there of the child Jesus. They told stories of people praying to the “Child Jesus” and miracles happening as a result of that prayer. Since, as we all know, Jesus grew beyond childhood and became a man and still lives today, it’s not possible to pray to the “Child Jesus” unless you’re praying to the statue.

There are those that claim that the church teaches idolatry but I’m not one of those. I’ve already suspected that some of her members were very close to the edge of practicing Idolatry and I’m pretty sure this show confirmed that there are those that are over the edge.

The television had been on for a while before I noticed the show and I might have accomplished recording it on the DVR. If that happens to be true, I will try and watch it again, when I have time and see if my conclusion changes.

I’m curious if others have noticed that some members of the church have gone beyond the bounds of mere veneration and pleas for intercession into actual idolatry?
Click to expand...
There are some that take it to the extremes, but there are also some in every faith that do so. Do you judge the entire faith on a few? What of the “snake handlers” and that extreme Baptist like Westboro that are almost considered a hate group?

Is that statue answering their prayers? Of course not! lol It is their faith in Christ that is answering their prayers. As a Baptist, if you could go and touch the very places where Jesus was baptized, would that make your faith stronger? If you could go and touch the stone where He was laid to rest, would that make your faith stronger? If you answered yes, would that be considered a for of idol worship? :rolleyes:
 
aidanbradypop said:
There are some that take it to the extremes, but there are also some in every faith that do so. Do you judge the entire faith on a few? What of the “snake handlers” and that extreme Baptist like Westboro that are almost considered a hate group?

Is that statue answering their prayers? Of course not! lol It is their faith in Christ that is answering their prayers. As a Baptist, if you could go and touch the very places where Jesus was baptized, would that make your faith stronger? If you could go and touch the stone where He was laid to rest, would that make your faith stronger? If you answered yes, would that be considered a for of idol worship? :rolleyes:
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I think I was very clear that I didn’t think this was the position of the Catholic Church which makes most of your questions insulting.

For the record, I think there are those in all denominations that get at least some things wrong. I have no opinion what the net result of those mistakes would be.
 
Brandall said:
I think I was very clear that I didn’t think this was the position of the Catholic Church which makes most of your questions insulting.
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I am sorry you feel that way for they were not meant to be. I was asking if a Baptist did those things, would it be considered idolatry or faith building. Better?
 
In all honesty, I worry about this too. But what has helped me is that when you talk to almost all people, they pray to the person. Not the statue. This is why the statue worshipping bugs me. We have statues of George washington and Thomas Jefferson in our capitol, are we worshipping them when we stand in front of them? No. I think what people forget is that a lot of us our visual. Statues help us remember and in the middle ages when few could read it helped people to know about saints and events.

Now I will say there are superstitions though that even the church has come down on, such as burying a St. Joseph statue to sell your house (I think it’s St. Joseph). I also think certain unnaproved Marian apparitions are too ready attribute help just to mary.All the legitimate one lead back to Jesus.
 
aidanbradypop said:
I am sorry you feel that way for they were not meant to be. I was asking if a Baptist did those things, would it be considered idolatry or faith building. Better?
Click to expand...
I gave my opinion and it is my opinion, regarding the video of what was presented. My last response was edited to include: For the record, I think there are those in all denominations that get at least some things wrong. I have no opinion what the net result of those mistakes would be.

I never said that I was judging the Catholic Church on a few and I thought I made it very clear, respectfully that I didn’t think that.

My only points were that it appeared to me that some had taken things a bit too far and it is my opinion that it was Idolatry. I think it went beyond what the church and most of her members believe is correct.

Peace be with you
 
WildCatholic said:
Now I will say there are superstitions though that even the church has come down on, such as burying a St. Joseph statue to sell your house (I think it’s St. Joseph). I also think certain unnaproved Marian apparitions are too ready attribute help just to mary.All the legitimate one lead back to Jesus.
Click to expand...
Very true! Everything should always bring us closer to Christ. When it skates the edge of superstition then one needs to reflect on their intentions.
Brandall said:
I gave my opinion and it is my opinion, regarding the video of what was presented. My last response was edited to include: For the record, I think there are those in all denominations that get at least some things wrong. I have no opinion what the net result of those mistakes would be.

I never said that I was judging the Catholic Church on a few and I thought I made it very clear, respectfully that I didn’t think that.

My only points were that it appeared to me that some had taken things a bit too far and it is my opinion that it was Idolatry. I think it went beyond what the church and most of her members believe is correct.

Peace be with you
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That is good of you not to judge. Catholics even judge the Church on the actions of one person. 🤷

You never really answered my questions though. If a memeber from your Baptist congregation goes to the Holy Land to view the buriel site or the baptism site of Christ and prayers there, are they considered to be dabbing in idolatry? Whether it is a statue or a river, the fact remains the same. Right? Stop being defensive. I am not attacking you lol. 👍
 
WildCatholic said:
In all honesty, I worry about this too. But what has helped me is that when you talk to almost all people, they pray to the person. Not the statue. This is why the statue worshipping bugs me. We have statues of George washington and Thomas Jefferson in our capitol, are we worshipping them when we stand in front of them? No. I think what people forget is that a lot of us our visual. Statues help us remember and in the middle ages when few could read it helped people to know about saints and events.

Now I will say there are superstitions though that even the church has come down on, such as burying a St. Joseph statue to sell your house (I think it’s St. Joseph). I also think certain unnaproved Marian apparitions are too ready attribute help just to mary.All the legitimate one lead back to Jesus.
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I have no problems with statues or praying for the intercession of the saints. In this instance, it appeared things had crossed the line.
 
(OP, don’t feel defensive for asking questions. It is ok.)

I don’t see anything wrong with a statue of the child Jesus. Jesus was and is always God, before the Incarnation, as a child, as an adult, after his death and Resurrection. Praying before a statue, icon, or painting is not idolatry, rather, such images can help our human mind focus on the reality of God. I don’t see any big risk of idolatry.

Mother Angelica of EWTN commissioned a statue of the child Jesus whom she says she saw in a vision:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
PaulfromIowa said:
(OP, don’t feel defensive for asking questions. It is ok.)

I don’t see anything wrong with a statue of the child Jesus. Jesus was and is always God, before the Incarnation, as a child, as an adult, after his death and Resurrection. Praying before a statue, icon, or painting is not idolatry, rather, such images can help our human mind focus on the reality of God. I don’t see any big risk of idolatry.

Mother Angelica of EWTN commissioned a statue of the child Jesus whom she says she saw in a vision:

http://www.thehouseofdivinonino.com/uploads/4/5/1/4/4514319/1250501.jpg?379
Click to expand...
I have no problems with a statue of the child Jesus and we’re kind of Christmas nuts at our house and have more than 10 nativities.

However, it seems wrong to pray to the child Jesus, represented by a statue of which the claim is, “See a little image of the Baby Jesus, called the Santo
Bambino, which has been responsible for many
miracles in the Abruzzi area”.

That is in the website description from the company that produced the video and I only looked it up after I found the video questionable. Saying the miracle came from God, Jesus or the holy spirit would not have alarmed me. What was said did.
 
Brandall said:
I have no problems with a statue of the child Jesus and we’re kind of Christmas nuts at our house and have more than 10 nativities.

However, it seems wrong to pray to the child Jesus, represented by a statue of which the claim is, “See a little image of the Baby Jesus, called the Santo
Bambino, which has been responsible for many
miracles in the Abruzzi area”.

That is in the website description from the company that produced the video and I only looked it up after I found the video questionable. Saying the miracle came from God, Jesus or the holy spirit would not have alarmed me. What was said did.
Click to expand...
If my memory serves me right, the statue was made because of an apparition of Jesus as an infant happened at that site. So they aren’t praying to just a statue, but to Jesus himself as he appeared to a franciscan in the 15th century. Jesus can take the form of an infant and perform miracles, He does not have to appear just at the age of when he was crucified. The miracles that are claimed do come from Jesus, not the statue itself. Same as the rosary can be an aid in miracles, or the various images of the the apparitions of Mary and the statues that represent those apparitions. God works through the tools He gives us, be it sacred statues, or the rosary, or holy water, anointing oils…doesn’t meant those items by themselves have any power, only God working through them.
 
Brandall said:
I have no problems with a statue of the child Jesus and we’re kind of Christmas nuts at our house and have more than 10 nativities.

However, it seems wrong to pray to the child Jesus, represented by a statue of which the claim is, “See a little image of the Baby Jesus, called the Santo
Bambino, which has been responsible for many
miracles in the Abruzzi area”.

That is in the website description from the company that produced the video and I only looked it up after I found the video questionable. Saying the miracle came from God, Jesus or the holy spirit would not have alarmed me. What was said did.
Click to expand...
I can see what you are saying, but it can also be taken into how the statement was meant. As in, it is Baby Jesus who is responsible for the miracles and not the statue. I think what you are saying is, and I may be wrong, you don’t have an issue with the statue per se, but the problem is praying to the baby/child Jesus since he is now a grown up. Again I may be wrong, but I believe the teaching is God operates outside of time, and as Jesus is God, he also operates outside of time, whether He does as an adult or as a child or even infant.
 
I would say, Christ as a child was still God. And God is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever. So praying to the child Jesus would still be praying to God.
 
Brandall said:
Out of respect for the Catholic Church and my Catholic friends, I am putting this in the non-Catholic area. It was with joy that I found for myself that the Catholic Church and most of her members do not practice Idolatry nor sanction it. However, I just watched a show on EWTN that I can’t find a way to describe the practices of it as anything but Idolatry.

The show in question was titled Miracles of the Child Jesus. Maybe you can find when it runs again or find it on the internet to see it for yourself.

This older couple was in Europe, possibly Italy and the show was about a statue there of the child Jesus. They told stories of people praying to the “Child Jesus” and miracles happening as a result of that prayer. Since, as we all know, Jesus grew beyond childhood and became a man and still lives today, it’s not possible to pray to the “Child Jesus” unless you’re praying to the statue.

There are those that claim that the church teaches idolatry but I’m not one of those. I’ve already suspected that some of her members were very close to the edge of practicing Idolatry and I’m pretty sure this show confirmed that there are those that are over the edge.

The television had been on for a while before I noticed the show and I might have accomplished recording it on the DVR. If that happens to be true, I will try and watch it again, when I have time and see if my conclusion changes.

I’m curious if others have noticed that some members of the church have gone beyond the bounds of mere veneration and pleas for intercession into actual idolatry?
Click to expand...
I think in our particular faith tradition, we are so hesitant to avoid idolatry, that we tend to see anything that deviates from our way of worshiping God as idolatry.

There are certainly people who are unconsciously being idolatrous in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions. They put too much emphasis on the statue, or the icon, or the saint than on God himself. Generally, though, these tend to be people who are not well established in the faith or simply are that religion by background rather than in practice. In Italy, for example, a large number of people are devoted to their particular town saint, but not exactly the Church as a whole. The Catholic Church can be severely criticized by Italians, but, if you go to Catania for example, there are huge throngs in the streets when Saint Agatha is celebrated. A recent poll showed that many Italians prayed directly to Padre Pio, and not often to Jesus Christ himself. Pope Benedict XVI came out to specifically criticize this practice and while of course approving of saintly intercession, reminded Italians that it is God we are to worship.

However, I think it should be noted that such deviations, albeit in different ways, occur in our own Evangelical faith as well. And while idolatry is obviously evil, we can be relentless in our pursuit to defeat it, even to the point of exaggeration. Iconoclasm is, after all, the flip side of idolatry. 😃

I’ve grown to appreciate and love icons and statues myself. I have purchased an icon of the Resurrection, and I do believe, that, when I do pray with it by my side, I do keep my eyes focused on Christ the King. It’s a beautiful icon and a wondrous component of our Christian heritage.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
I think in our particular faith tradition, we are so hesitant to avoid idolatry, that we tend to see anything that deviates from our way of worshiping God as idolatry.

There are certainly people who are unconsciously being idolatrous in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions. They put too much emphasis on the statue, or the icon, or the saint than on God himself. Generally, though, these tend to be people who are not well established in the faith or simply are that religion by background rather than in practice. In Italy, for example, a large number of people are devoted to their particular town saint, but not exactly the Church as a whole. The Catholic Church can be severely criticized by Italians, but, if you go to Catania for example, there are huge throngs in the streets when Saint Agatha is celebrated. A recent poll showed that many Italians prayed directly to Padre Pio, and not often to Jesus Christ himself. Pope Benedict XVI came out to specifically criticize this practice and while of course approving of saintly intercession, reminded Italians that it is God we are to worship.

However, I think it should be noted that such deviations, albeit in different ways, occur in our own Evangelical faith as well. And while idolatry is obviously evil, we can be relentless in our pursuit to defeat it, even to the point of exaggeration. Iconoclasm is, after all, the flip side of idolatry. 😃

I’ve grown to appreciate and love icons and statues myself. I have purchased an icon of the Resurrection, and I do believe, that, when I do pray with it by my side, I do keep my eyes focused on Christ the King. It’s a beautiful icon and a wondrous component of our Christian heritage.
Click to expand...
Now I’m curious. Can you post a photo of the icon?
 
The mention of the couple being European makes me think that English was not their native tongue and they were either not fluent or their words were translated. The whole issue might be a problem of translation as to whether they said they were worshiping the statue. In addition, every Catholic (or Lutheran, or other denomination) may not be fully conversant with their faith’s teaching and traditions.
 
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