Idolatry Worshiping Jesus with a statue

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I understand how having statues of Saints and praying to the Saints in heaven is not Idolatry because we do not worship that Saints or pray to the statues but we have statues of Jesus and we do worship Jesus. Pagans have statues of their gods and the worship them but they don’t pray to the statue they pray to what it represents. Just like how we don’t pray to the statue of Jesus we pay to what it represents. We have a statue of our God. So wouldn’t praying to Jesus with using a statue be the same as what the pagans do?
 
I understand how having statues of Saints and praying to the Saints in heaven is not Idolatry because we do not worship that Saints or pray to the statues but we have statues of Jesus and we do worship Jesus. Pagans have statues of their gods and the worship them but they don’t pray to the statue they pray to what it represents. Just like how we don’t pray to the statue of Jesus we pay to what it represents. We have a statue of our God. So wouldn’t praying to Jesus with using a statue be the same as what the pagans do?
No…because Jesus is God…the pagan god is an inanimate object.
 
I understand how having statues of Saints and praying to the Saints in heaven is not Idolatry because we do not worship that Saints or pray to the statues but we have statues of Jesus and we do worship Jesus. Pagans have statues of their gods and the worship them but they don’t pray to the statue they pray to what it represents. Just like how we don’t pray to the statue of Jesus we pay to what it represents. We have a statue of our God. So wouldn’t praying to Jesus with using a statue be the same as what the pagans do?
There are several differences between worshiping idols and worshiping Jesus with a statue. In classic idolatry, the statue was invested with the spirit of the god, and thus it could be worshiped and prayed to as an object, because the god was inside it. In Christianity, from the very beginning we’ve believed that the images of God or His Son don’t have any divine spirit inside them at all, but they only represent what they portray. The Church Fathers insisted that the honor we pay to the image does not rest with the image, but passes to the person it portrays. Thus when we pray or worship in front of an image, we do not worship or pray to the image at all, and the idolaters did. But we only worship God, and the images we have are only there to bring Him to mind and focus our devotion and prayer on the persons who are in heaven.
 
I understand that Catholics are not praying to the statue but to what it represents but to be honest that is just playing with words.

No-one knows what Jesus or the Apostles look like so making a statue that represents God, how can we ? I will be told different but if i made a statue of a black man with dreadlocks and prayed to it and said its ok bcoz it represents Jesus would that be OK ? i think not. So then any-time we bow down in front of a statue we are bowing to an idol we say is represent of God so whether in your mind you say it inst the people who bow down to other statues say the same.

King David, king Solomon, did they build idols and worship them ? Yep. Was God pleased ? No He was well angry.

So before i post this, just because we say to ourselves our statue is not what we worship its what it represents is how we deceive ourselves and thus never get our prayers brought before the throne.

Jesus said we should go into our room and pray in secret, not in-front of statues or anything else, like the Pharisees or priests do as they have had there reward and want people to see them, but to do it in secret on our own, no idols or statues and then our Father in heaven will hear them and answer them.
Let me finish with saying all my life all my catholic friends and family rarely if ever get their prayers answered but myself who follows the teaching of the scriptures and Jesus has his prayers answered repeatedly which if you read Matthew you will see our Lord gives this promise to give us EVERYTHING we ask for in prayer. And before any idiot hits me with “so i can ask Go to give me riches and women” or anything else silly can i just say don’t bother me with your heathen rubbish, we pray and ask for things we need not what we want as myself want to follow Gods commandments as that’s were true life success is so go read your bible as our Lord and the apostles and the saints also command us.

9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?

11 Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.

12 The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.

13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.

14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.

15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.

16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:

17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.

18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?

20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;

26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:

27 That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

FOLLOW JESUS NOT MAN. READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELVES AND ASK GOD TO TEACH YOU HIS COMMANDS. DO NOT RELY ON MAN/WOMAN OR YOUR PASTOR OR PRIEST. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT READ YOUR GOSPELS AND NEW TESTAMENT AND HEAR IT FROM THE ONE TRUE GOD CHRIST JESUS, AMEN.👍
 
The Lord commanded Moses to have statues of cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant. If He had been dead set against all images, He wouldn’t have done that.

And for that matter, the brass sea was an image of the Ocean, the whole Temple was an image of the Universe and of Heaven’s Court, the mercy seat was an image of the Throne, etc, etc.

Beyond that, He commanded the prophets to write, which is to create an image of spoken words. He commanded us to remember His Word, which is to create a mental image in sound or picture.

And He made us in His image and likeness, and He made Himself one of us.

So, if you think all images are idolatry, you have to forget reading the Bible, never quote any verses from it, and kill everyone. Since this would be very much against God’s Law, God clearly doesn’t hate all images.

So no, it’s not some kind of sophistical wordplay. Preserving the distinction between a lawful image and an idolatrous image is how we justify the existence of humanity, the deity and humanity of Christ, and pretty much everything that either Christians or Jews hold dear. Iconoclasm kills, while fighting idolatry is healthy.
 
KCoyle33, it’s not good to lie about being Catholic. And I’ll decide to trust 2,000 years of teaching and the early Church Fathers instead.
 
I understand that Catholics are not praying to the statue but to what it represents but to be honest that is just playing with words.

FOLLOW JESUS NOT MAN. READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELVES AND ASK GOD TO TEACH YOU HIS COMMANDS. DO NOT RELY ON MAN/WOMAN OR YOUR PASTOR OR PRIEST. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT READ YOUR GOSPELS AND NEW TESTAMENT AND HEAR IT FROM THE ONE TRUE GOD CHRIST JESUS, AMEN.👍
What religion are you? No, seriously. Even if a Catholic disagreed personally with praying to statues, they’d still want to remain faithful to the Magisterium.

In short, it is very much possible to pray to what something represents and not to the object itself. We are NOT playing with words. Thinking a statue IS God and praying to the statue thinking it’s God IS idolatry. Recognizing that the statue merely represents God and using it to help think about God when praying to Him (not the statue) is not idolatry
 
I understand how having statues of Saints and praying to the Saints in heaven is not Idolatry because we do not worship that Saints or pray to the statues but we have statues of Jesus and we do worship Jesus. Pagans have statues of their gods and the worship them but they don’t pray to the statue they pray to what it represents. Just like how we don’t pray to the statue of Jesus we pay to what it represents. We have a statue of our God. So wouldn’t praying to Jesus with using a statue be the same as what the pagans do?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8196133&postcount=14
 
I understand how having statues of Saints and praying to the Saints in heaven is not Idolatry because we do not worship that Saints or pray to the statues but we have statues of Jesus and we do worship Jesus. Pagans have statues of their gods and the worship them but they don’t pray to the statue they pray to what it represents. Just like how we don’t pray to the statue of Jesus we pay to what it represents. We have a statue of our God. So wouldn’t praying to Jesus with using a statue be the same as what the pagans do?
An idol is an object to which worship is addressed. Worship is not addressed to statues of Jesus, but Jesus Himself.

If there were pagans who worshiped what they thought to be their gods using statues but without worshiping their statues, then their error would not be in the use of statues but that their gods did not exist.
 
Im not a catholic i was raised in the faith and went through all the ceremony of communion and confirmation etc.

My religion is none im a believer. Its just me, my faith, and the bible. It was good enough for the the believers 2000yrs ago and its good enough for me today.

It isnt hard to read Gods Word, accept it, understand it and believe it and put it into practice.

What is hard is following mans doctrine and someone elses interpretation of the scripture.

Jesus came to the poor, needy, prostitute, the kind of people that would be thrown out of church or if not looked down on and despised, well that`s me, yeah i might not look poor and needy, and iv never been thrown out of a church, not yet.

When i was 10 i think we were making our confirmation and there was a girl who had just came into the class i dunno that year don’t remember the exact time was over 2oyrs ago, anyway we were all excited at doing our thing, we were meeting the bishop, it was Joseph devine, the bishop in Lanarkshire lovely man, our priest was the Monsignor Tom Connelly when he was still a priest, so all lovely men who loved Jesus and loved God but anyway my abiding memory was on the day they made this girl go even though they would not let her join in, she hadn’t made her first communion, and we all got to meet the bishop as i said and get slapped on the cheek by him, all had wonderful parties with gifts etc and this one girl cried throughout because she was excluded. Now i know why she was excluded and i aint making a big deal my point is the catholic church has so much dogma and doctrine it has gotten away from its roots as the one true church and is now an all powerful organisation more concerned with ceremony and tradition than true bible teaching. Did Jesus exclude anyone especially children, no, infact He said we must become like children to enter the kingdom of God so my point and its also the concern of many Catholics who are concerned about the church that since Vatican II was set up up to that last pope Ratzinger the church is become the heretic it so despised but i have faith that this new guy the Jesuit pope Frances might get the church back to its roots and become the beautiful bridesmaid it should be but since my whole family are church going, church serving, deep in the church but yet no not Jesus or the truth i have my doubts.

But let me just say, we are all brothers and sisters of the same family and faith which is Christ Jesus and like family’s we may disagree and have quarrels but what we should remember is nt only do we love our God with all our heart soul and mind but love each other also so do not think i hate or want to fight anyone, i just want everyone to know that away from all the ceremony people can have a full relationship and faith in Christ without the pope or the priests permission.

ps, iv always had the feeling if Jesus was to walk into 99% of the worlds churches that proclaim to love Him, He would`nt be accepted as He didnt fit with the profile the church has given Him.

pps can i go and bow to my tv and pray to it if i tell myself it is just a representation of God ? No, why ? because its silly. (yes i know a tv and a statue of a beautiful man are slightly different but the concept is the same, just because the statues are beautiful and made with the best stones and gold and silver does not a representation of God make)…

Peace to ya all 👍
 
The Lord commanded Moses to have statues of cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant. If He had been dead set against all images, He wouldn’t have done that.

And for that matter, the brass sea was an image of the Ocean, the whole Temple was an image of the Universe and of Heaven’s Court, the mercy seat was an image of the Throne, etc, etc.

Beyond that, He commanded the prophets to write, which is to create an image of spoken words. He commanded us to remember His Word, which is to create a mental image in sound or picture.

And He made us in His image and likeness, and He made Himself one of us.

So, if you think all images are idolatry, you have to forget reading the Bible, never quote any verses from it, and kill everyone. Since this would be very much against God’s Law, God clearly doesn’t hate all images.

So no, it’s not some kind of sophistical wordplay. Preserving the distinction between a lawful image and an idolatrous image is how we justify the existence of humanity, the deity and humanity of Christ, and pretty much everything that either Christians or Jews hold dear. Iconoclasm kills, while fighting idolatry is healthy.
👍👍

There are some who say that images are idolatry, but would not pray with out their Bibles in their hands. :eek::):gopray:
 
ps, iv always had the feeling if Jesus was to walk into 99% of the worlds churches that proclaim to love Him, He would`nt be accepted as He didnt fit with the profile the church has given Him.
He’s there every day. I even found a picture for you:



(Stole that idea from here by the way.)
pps can i go and bow to my tv and pray to it if i tell myself it is just a representation of God ? No, why ? because its silly. (yes i know a tv and a statue of a beautiful man are slightly different but the concept is the same, just because the statues are beautiful and made with the best stones and gold and silver does not a representation of God make)…
Peace to ya all 👍
A statue is a focus. See:bne.catholic.net.au/data/portal/00005057/0000/005/283/content/01874001336103212646.pdf

If you’re tv really and truly helped you to focus on God (say, because it was displaying a religious image), then there would be no problem using it in such a way.
 
An idol is an object to which worship is addressed. Worship is not addressed to statues of Jesus, but Jesus Himself.

If there were pagans who worshipped what they thought to be their gods using statues but without worshipping their statues, then their error would not be in the use of statues but that their gods did not exist.
No i do understand that the scripture i posted is concerning what you have said, i posted it all because so many people will take a verse or 2 and use it to back up what their point is but when you read it in context it has a different meaning.

The reason i posted it was because even though it has the meaning you said would you not agree the scriptures can also mean more than what it was being used for at the time, if not it would just be a collection of nice stories, well not all nice the scripture contains some scary truths but my point was statues are just rocks, it does not matter how you fashion it to look it still a rock, if i could make poo look like gold it would still be poo.

So im not saying Catholics worship statues or idols, i know it is God and the God of the bible not some foreign god that is in their mind when they look to these statues but its still just a rock so why bother with moulding it to look like a beautiful human man. I read the scripture and all i find about statues is they concern idolatry i can find nowhere were a statue was used to represent God i get the opposite God continually forbids us to do it so why is it ok if you get a whole bunch of people saying “but its ok cause the statue represents Jesus” if the devil represented Jesus would you use it for prayer and before you say im taking **** well the anti-christ is just that something that is going to seem more like Jesus than Jesus did and this is why he will be accepted as such, these aint my words but the words of our Lord and Paul the apostle so if you disagree take it up with them.lol.👍
 
He’s there every day. I even found a picture for you:

(Stole that idea from here by the way.)

A statue is a focus. See:bne.catholic.net.au/data/portal/00005057/0000/005/283/content/01874001336103212646.pdf

If you’re tv really and truly helped you to focus on God (say, because it was displaying a religious image), then there would be no problem using it in such a way.
No i get what your saying and like im sure you do too when you see like an awesome mountain or hear birds singing there is a million things that get me thinking how it has Gods hand and design on it but i wouldnt bow infront of it i mean like at school we got sent to the statues to say our hail marys when the priest dished em out at confession and although i can see how it all makes innocent sense etc i just cant find anywhere in scripture were i can be assured that its an ok practice. I could then say ok my golden bull head is so beautiful it make same appreciate how wonderful God is i shall use it as a representation of God so i say well a statue of a beautiful human man its not much different as it all depends on what reminds people of God. But you know what the proofs in the pudding God said a tree would bear its fruits and as far as i can see the fruits of most churches and the people who attend them aint holy so people can pray to whatever and whoever they want the fruit will show if it is of God.

ps yeah i get the point of Jesus is at the church in spirit as were 2 or more are gathered in His name He is there but my point was Jesus didnt live up to what we expected thats why the jews crucified Him and deny Him as Gods son because people were expecting a glorious king like David and they got a carpenters son but good show i liked it.😉
 
My religion is none im a believer. Its just me, my faith, and the bible. It was good enough for the the believers 2000yrs ago and its good enough for me today.
I’m not sure if you’re joking or honestly believe that Christians had the Bible 2,000 years ago or even that literacy was common then.
 
I understand that Catholics are not praying to the statue but to what it represents but to be honest that is just playing with words.

No-one knows what Jesus or the Apostles look like so making a statue that represents God, how can we ? I will be told different but if i made a statue of a black man with dreadlocks and prayed to it and said its ok bcoz it represents Jesus would that be OK ? i think not. So then any-time we bow down in front of a statue we are bowing to an idol we say is represent of God so whether in your mind you say it inst the people who bow down to other statues say the same.

King David, king Solomon, did they build idols and worship them ? Yep. Was God pleased ? No He was well angry.

So before i post this, just because we say to ourselves our statue is not what we worship its what it represents is how we deceive ourselves and thus never get our prayers brought before the throne.

Jesus said we should go into our room and pray in secret, not in-front of statues or anything else, like the Pharisees or priests do as they have had there reward and want people to see them, but to do it in secret on our own, no idols or statues and then our Father in heaven will hear them and answer them.
Let me finish with saying all my life all my catholic friends and family rarely if ever get their prayers answered but myself who follows the teaching of the scriptures and Jesus has his prayers answered repeatedly which if you read Matthew you will see our Lord gives this promise to give us EVERYTHING we ask for in prayer. And before any idiot hits me with “so i can ask Go to give me riches and women” or anything else silly can i just say don’t bother me with your heathen rubbish, we pray and ask for things we need 👍
What if I think need a million dollars and I pray for it, will God give it to me? What about health? By the way, when you pray, do you some times hold your Bible in your hands? If you do, how do I know you are not using the Bible as an idol?

By the way God ordered Moses to make idols, according to your thinking. :bigyikes::gopray:

David and Solomon did not make idols for themselves. The idols were for their wives. That did not make what they did right. 🙂 😛

You say you are catholic, but you post as if you were not Catholic. :confused: Of course, I am posting is just 'heathen rubbish. because I am questianing your posts.
 
Our Lord requested that St Faustina make an image of himself as seen by her and that we should all look towards that image and pray to Our Lord. That image is well publicised.
 
Our Lord requested that St Faustina make an image of himself as seen by her and that we should all look towards that image and pray to Our Lord. That image is well publicised.
OK so by that reckonng the Word isnt Gods perfect work as He had to come back and tell someone that he should make an image.

Do you read your bible ?

Whoever appeared to Faustina aint my Lord Jesus Christ.👍
 
OK so by that reckonng the Word isnt Gods perfect work as He had to come back and tell someone that he should make an image.

Do you read your bible ?

Whoever appeared to Faustina aint my Lord Jesus Christ.👍
I read the bible.

Nobody is saying you have to believe in St Faustina! She is a wonderful saint.

When you pray to god, do you have am image of him in your mind of what you think he looks like? Is it by an chance the same as what we see in church of Our Lord?
 
What if I think need a million dollars and I pray for it, will God give it to me? What about health? By the way, when you pray, do you some times hold your Bible in your hands? If you do, how do I know you are not using the Bible as an idol?

By the way God ordered Moses to make idols, according to your thinking. :bigyikes::gopray:

David and Solomon did not make idols for themselves. The idols were for their wives. That did not make what they did right. 🙂 😛

You say you are catholic, but you post as if you were not Catholic. :confused: Of course, I am posting is just 'heathen rubbish. because I am questianing your posts.
Im pretty certain i have said every time iv been asked which is 3 lol but i def did the last but this will be the 4th phew…i was born into a catholic family, raised in the faith etc went through all the ceremony and my family among them are lay preachers and do the readings and collections in church and have been deeply religious all their lifes, chapel every Sunday and more during lent and Easter which is all good but myself when i was a teenager i desired who was God as all i knew was what the church told me which was He is represented by priests, bishops etc upto the pope who claims to be God on earth and who the flock think is Gods Numero uno but i still didnt know who God was so much soul searching and study and many visits to lots of churches of all faiths iv found man to be a total let down and the truth to be in the Word of God but no-one ever told me to read the bible if i wanted to know God, its so simple but yet who really does it, and then some who do think somehow they know better than the rest so many have started their own branches as im sure ul know this is how protestantism and every other faith came about. So im NOT a catholic but i was indoctrined init so im as clued up about the dogma and probably more so than most through my continued study of faith and religion.

I know Solomon set up idols concerning his many many wifes and like most men turned from God because of some chick (no offence) that wast my point i said jjust any search of the scripture concerning statues in worship and prayer are all negative and lead to an unfulfilled life.

Didnt Paul pray for our health and wealth in the letters he wrote, he said he wanted to come and lay hands on the believers and pray for their health and wealth. God wants us to be healthy and wealthy but not to the extent if it is selfish or sinful. So if you so desire pray for what you like but most true believers know God wants our success over and over Jesus tells us God will gives us more than we can handle if we just have faith and stop worrying and having doubt but this doesnt mean we pray " dear God i want money, health, power etc oh and if you have time maybe peace in the middle east" we pray for the right things and get our hearts and minds right and keep Gods commandments and He blesses us like a Father blesses his kids if they are good. I could hit you with endless scripture from Jesus and the apostles concerning our health and wealth but im going to believe you know this already as the bible is free and every Christian should be reading it daily so you will know already.

CAN I REPEAT IM NOT SAYING PRAYING TO STATUES IS IDOL WORSHIP OR YOU ARE PRAYING TO IT I KNOW ITS TO HELP GET YOUR MIND ON GOD AND GIVE YOU FOCUS I KNOW THAT. but nowhere in scripture when anyone asked Jesus “ow should we pray” did He direct us to statues on the contrary He said we should get alone and do it in secret jeez im not trying to convert you to my faith all im doing is what Jesus directs us to do that’s how we should live by doing what Jesus says not doctrine or tracts or any other ****.

And yes i do hold my bible close to me sometimes like when i go to bed sometimes i hold it as to me its the only thing on earth that God can be found which is what is supposed to make a mass or chapel special that we should read from the bible thus hearing the word to grow in faith which is the very reason i dont go to any church or group as they read a bit of bible then preach or say mass for 1hr or 2hrs giving same guys interpretation of what it is God is actually saying./ Though im not stupid to think there isnt people who need scripture explained but thats usually young people who like to question everything most adult Christian believes can read the Word without any help- whatsoever as with anything else we learn to do it for ourselves.

So feel free to use statues, pictures, so called saintly men/woman, priests whatever you want but its by fruits that we know if its the truth and my main point that is all im saying is show me were Jesus or anywhere in the new testament we are directed to use statues, im saying in my bible any time statues are used is when describing image worship or idolatry which i know you say is not what you do which is fine but i`ll get my guidance from the scripture no-were else until i either die or see Christ coming back in the clouds which i will know its Him as He will be surrounded by angels and the trumpet will sound but alas i fear i will either die or be persecuted and killed before i see that great and glorious day, amen.
 
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