Idolatry

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105lynne

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Not sure if this is the correct forum, but… What exactly do we Catholics define as idolatry? I know of the commandment that states no graven images. I also am aware of the part in the Bible where God commands that images be made. This has always confused me. I totally understand why Protestants think we violate that rule. But what should we tell them? If I kiss my scapular, is that idolatry? I have read so many explanations and have yet to find one that puts an end to the questions I have. I kiss pics of my late mother, but I certainly realize that that isn’t actually her. It’s just a way to tangibly express my emotions to someone who is no longer physically present. But am I sinning when I do this? Please explain…
 
I kiss pics of my late mother, but I certainly realize that that isn’t actually her.
Actually, you kissing a picture of your deceased mother actually proves the Catholic side, that not all kissing is Idolatry. But Idolatry means the WORSHIP of something other than God (the Holy Trinity). Like for example, if you build an altar to a cow goddess, make a golden image of that cow goddess, and bow down to it and son, that is Idolatry.

But no, you kissing your deceased mother’s picture, or you kissing your scapular is not idolatry. A couple of times, I’ve kissed the crucifix on my rosaries, after I pray or when something good happens. Do I worship the little crucifix on my rosary? No. But I do worship the person on it (Jesus). And Idolatry doesn’t always have to be in religious circumstances. Sometimes there is worship of money (greed) or worship of self (vanity/pride), or even worship of somebody’s crush or spouse or partner.

See those “Justin Bieber is better than Jesus” groups on Facebook, and you’ll see what I mean. :sad_yes:
 
Jesus said that where your treasure is, so is your heart.

Idolatry is placing your heart in something other than God. It’s not about statues, or “graven images” or scapulars or whatever. It’s about where your heart, your faith, your trust, and your hope is.

Peace
James
 
Not sure if this is the correct forum, but… What exactly do we Catholics define as idolatry? I know of the commandment that states no graven images. I also am aware of the part in the Bible where God commands that images be made. This has always confused me. I totally understand why Protestants think we violate that rule. But what should we tell them? If I kiss my scapular, is that idolatry? I have read so many explanations and have yet to find one that puts an end to the questions I have. I kiss pics of my late mother, but I certainly realize that that isn’t actually her. It’s just a way to tangibly express my emotions to someone who is no longer physically present. But am I sinning when I do this? Please explain…
None of the things you named is idolatry. It is placing something before God.

God Blss
 
Protestant said, they have faith in Jesus, that’s not true because why don’t they join the Church that was started by Jesus?
 
It seems to me that there is so much confusion on this and so many red-herrings. While the examples you cite are not idolatry, it is alive and well in modern society. Many people place their jobs, political parties, unions, sports and a zillion other things ahead of God. God gets the left-overs, if they have the time. I wrote about this last year.
 
The use of religious art to minister to the people is used by many Christian religions, but our practice, like our religion, is at least 1500 years older than others. Inspired common sense must be used to understand our practices. To fully know Catholicism is to find that it is the most Biblical of all Christian religions.

I believe that a more educated world is weakening this ignorant accusation against Catholics, as well as others. You must understand that people who make these accusations come from a culture that is “religiously” anti-Catholic. You can prove each and every accusation false and they will not be the least bit more positive towards you. As a last line of defense their churches teach them that if everyone goes back to Catholicism it will be the end of the world and the Pope is the anti-Christ.

There is really nothing about our practice that should confuse a single soul. You have only to come to one Mass to see that we acknowledge one God and Jesus Christ as our only way to salvation. Thier confusion is caused by failure to acknowledge certain truths and not because scripture is confusing. After all, we presented the world with the Bible, so we most certainly are not confused by its content. God be with you.
 
Here’s how I understand it…

Worship is an act of the will. Something we do with our wills. When you really get down to it, worship doesn’t matter much on WHAT we do, but what we intend or what it is our “will” desires.

The same acts can be both worship or not worship, depending on your intent.
Imagine that I put a gun to your head and said “bow down to me” – you may do that… but are you “worshipping me” ??? – HECK NO! - you don’t intend to, you don’t really believe that I am a demi-god, in fact, I’m willing to bet everything in your mind is in fact rebelling and cursing me.

Q: So did I make you ‘worship’ me?
A: – NO!, because worship is an act of the will… and only YOU can do that, yourself.

Q: If I see you kiss a pictue and ASSUME you are worshipping it, does that make it so? Does my judgement change your actual actions in any meaningful way?
A: – NO!

I can only judge your external actions, however, God judges our heart. I may think that because you kneeled before a statue and said a prayer, that you are worshipping it.
YOU, however, are the only one who knows that what you were TRULY doing was praying to God, using the Statue as a reminder, as a catalyst for the correct worship owed only to God.

Part of the issue is that in the English speaking world, we have very few words to describe some VERY important things.
We have but 1 word for Love, and we use this 1 word to describe our feelings for our pets, our like of food, our feelings for our children, and our feelings for our spouse, not to mention our love of God.

The Greek differentiates these by calling them totally different things.

Similarly, the Greek differentiates the Respect and Honor we give to the Saints, family members who have passed on, from the Worship that is due only to our Lord and Savior, the 1 true God.

Catholicism is great at differentiating this because it actually has different words for honor and Worship.

Dulia is honor and respect owed to someone
Latria is worship owed to God alone, which no man or saint is EVER worthy of receiving. Giving Latria to anyone or thing besides God, alone, is Sacrilege, blasphemy, and damming.

Many English speaking countries, especially those which are pre-dominantly Protestant, like the U.S. and England… seem to have lost this distinction to a certain degree.

The 2nd part of the issue, is that many people don’t really understand WHAT worship is. When you have an improper understanding of Worship, it is easy to make everything worship.
Worship is not anything we do which is religious. Unfortunately, according to many Christian groups, Music is worship, Prayer is worship, anything done religiously is worship.

Not everything we do religiously is worship. For example…
The root of the word Prayer is “precari” which means a sincere “petition” - NOT worship.
Prayer itself is not a form of worship.
I can “pray to my parents to let me go to the party” I can “pray to my abductors that they let me go”
I can pray to anyone, because Prayer, itself, is not worship. It is merely a petition, expressing what my heart desires.

To claim that ALL prayer is worship is to corrupt the meaning of the word and confuse what worship is.

Going back to my earlier point… Worship is a specific act of the will. Therefore Prayer BECOMES worship, when that is what my will intends it to be. Another wards, prayer combined with the intent to worship, then becomes worship.

Otherwise, alone, void of intent, prayer is merely a form of communication. I can pray to a saint, pray to my Dad, even pray to my wife. I can use prayer in all sorts of situations, even as a mediation. But as long as I know I don’t worship the saints, my Dad, or my wife… I’m OK.
 
There are some excellent replies in this thread! I would like to add my two cents to attempt to improve my understanding. Please share your critiques.

Given the greatest commandment is to “love God” and through personal experience, I have come to understand that God is the required motivation for thought/behavior when attempting to always be patient and kind to achieve the greatest peace, happiness, and longevity.

Reasoning
Every thought/action we have/do has some combination of motivations. There are 3 types of motivation: Personal, Others, & Authority.
Personal motivation (Egoism)considers what is best for the self. Since this motivation fails to fully consider others and authority, it has the tendency to first cause stress in others, then strife in relationships, and eventually stress in the self.
Motivated for others (Altruism) considers what is best for others. Since this motivation fails to fully consider the self and authority, it has the tendency to first cause fatigue in the self, then strife in relationships.
Motivated for Authority considers what is best for the authority. Therefore, it is dependent on what the Authority wants. If the Authority is not God, it will either be exhaustible or lack in complete consideration of ALL perspectives affected by a thought/action.
Therefore, using any other motivation above God would be considered having false idols.
Back to the main concept: God is inexhaustible and completely considers what is best for those given authority over you, others related to you (including animals, plants, and the planet), and you!

Thank you for your time and consideration,
Jonathan Ochoa
 
If you read the Scripture texts, it makes clear when images are forbidden. It is when they (the images themselves) are made into gods which people bow down and serve; when these images are treasured more than God Himself. It isn’t right to just pull out the one line about not making graven images and ignore the qualifying sentences God gave just before and just after that line which explain when graven images become idolatrous.

Exodus 20:1-5 And God spoke all these words, saying,
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no **other gods **before me. "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,

Deut. 5:6-9 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no **other gods **before me. "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; This is why there was no contradiction between God’s first commandment and His order for the Israelites to carve images (cf Ex 25:18). The images He commanded them to carve were not to be regarded as “other gods”; they were not to be “bowed down to and served”. The same is true with our statues, scapulars, etc.
 
Not sure if this is the correct forum, but… What exactly do we Catholics define as idolatry? I know of the commandment that states no graven images. I also am aware of the part in the Bible where God commands that images be made. This has always confused me. I totally understand why Protestants think we violate that rule. But what should we tell them? If I kiss my scapular, is that idolatry? I have read so many explanations and have yet to find one that puts an end to the questions I have. I kiss pics of my late mother, but I certainly realize that that isn’t actually her. It’s just a way to tangibly express my emotions to someone who is no longer physically present. But am I sinning when I do this? Please explain…
You should also read about the heresy of Iconoclasm. I just heard a priest on EWTN on Saturday talking about how this heresy entered the Church after VII. the destruction of the images.
 
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