Idols

[Cling2Cross]

"I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images. " (Isaiah 42:8, NKJV)

He will not share it - nor will I share praise with another man when it comes to my wife…and I repeat, I do not care what her explanation is.

 

[MariaG]

This is clearly a different situation.

Care to at least offer an explanation of WHY it is different, instead of just walzing around?

 

[Church_Militant]

Oh…and don’t call us “Romanists” as that is an offensive anti-Catholic pejorative. We are Catholics.

 

[Church_Militant]

"I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

" (Isaiah 42:8, NKJV)

He will not share it - nor will I share praise with another man when it comes to my wife…and I repeat, I do not care what her explanation is.If we gave any adoration of praise to any image then I might worry…but since you cannot provide a single authentic Catholic document that says that we worship anyone other than God in the Holy Trinity or that we consider any image or icon a deity then it’s not a problem unless you just want it to be.

 

[MariaG]

"I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images. " (Isaiah 42:8, NKJV)

He will not share it - nor will I share praise with another man when it comes to my wife…and I repeat, I do not care what her explanation is.

Now you have gone to a different scenario. In the first one, your wife is bowing down to another who looks like you, in the second, she is praising another man.

In the first case, as far as you know, she in bending down to tie a man’s shoe who is incapable of doing so, showing an act of mercy and kindness, not that you would ever know since you don’t care for any explanation.

In the second, still not enough information, although it does become a problem if the KIND of praise she is giving another is your due alone.

But it is also possible that you are simply and unreasonable man, a problem God does not have, nor one that Catholics have since we never offer anyone but God the praise and worship due to Him alone.

 

[Wholly_Spirit]

But how can an image remind you of the lives they lived? If

Why can’t they? If I visit the Lincoln Memorial in D.C. do I have to stand there and read about him? No, the vision of his image brings to mind what I already know about him.

If I see an image of Jesus on the Cross, do I have to grab a Bible and read what means. No, it immediately brings to mind what I already know about Christ’s sacrfice.

If you see an image of Jesus on the Cross does it bring to your mind of Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross? Apparently not. It appears it reminds you of Catholic idolatry.

I want inspiration I’ll, for example, read the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[MariaG]

If we gave any adoration of praise to any image then I might worry…but since you cannot provide a single authentic Catholic document that says that we worship anyone other than God in the Holy Trinity or that we consider any image or icon a deity then it’s not a problem unless you just want it to be.

I think they just want to believe it is a problem because if Catholics don’t actually worship false idols, their separation from the Church founded by Christ becomes less secure

As you know, the hardest thing to admit is that you are wrong and what you thought you knew, what you were taught by men you admire, is just a bunch of lies.

But your story should be an inspriration to all. If you can be taught the truth about the teachings of the Catholic Church, then none should be considered a “lost cause”

 

[Cling2Cross]

Now you have gone to a different scenario. In the first one, your wife is bowing down to another who looks like you, in the second, she is praising another man.

In the first case, as far as you know, she in bending down to tie a man’s shoe who is incapable of doing so, showing an act of mercy and kindness, not that you would ever know since you don’t care for any explanation.

In the second, still not enough information, although it does become a problem if the KIND of praise she is giving another is your due alone.

But it is also possible that you are simply and unreasonable man, a problem God does not have, nor one that Catholics have since we never offer anyone but God the praise and worship due to Him alone.

Anyway…are your statues/images necessary?

 

[Cling2Cross]

I think they just want to believe it is a problem because if Catholics don’t actually worship false idols, their separation from the Church founded by Christ becomes less secure

As you know, the hardest thing to admit is that you are wrong and what you thought you knew, what you were taught by men you admire, is just a bunch of lies.

But your story should be an inspriration to all. If you can be taught the truth about the teachings of the Catholic Church, then none should be considered a “lost cause”

Your praying to Mary is enough for me…as well as your doctrine of justification/purgatory, etc.

 

[clarktaylor]

Because they are not idols. Because they are statues or images does not make them idols.

Well i don’t think this thread is going to go anywhere.

As I said in my first post, Paul describes Greek statues as idols. I don’t see any difference between them and a Catholic statue of, for example, the Virgin. Neither are gods and neither is an image of a god. They are, as David puts it more poetically…“silver and gold, made by the hands of men.They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but they cannot see;they have ears, but cannot hear, noses, but they cannot smell;they have hands, but cannot feel, feet, but they cannot walk;nor can they utter a sound with their throats.Those who make them will be like them,and so will all who trust in them.” Psalm 115

Amen!!!

 

[Church_Militant]

I think they just want to believe it is a problem because if Catholics don’t actually worship false idols, their separation from the Church founded by Christ becomes less secure

As you know, the hardest thing to admit is that you are wrong and what you thought you knew, what you were taught by men you admire, is just a bunch of lies.

But your story should be an inspriration to all. If you can be taught the truth about the teachings of the Catholic Church, then none should be considered a “lost cause”

Amen, and I think about this a great deal.

Two articles that I have recently blogged deal with what I have realized.
****My Reformation Theory
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

 

[Wholly_Spirit]

Anyway…are your statues/images necessary?

No more than the Bible is. Could you get along without the Bible? Catholics can. We have a teaching Church to guide us, but that doesn’t mean we’re going toss Scripture in the trash can. We have BOTH the teaching Church and Word of God. Can we do without statues/images? Sure, but why would we want to? This hullabaloo about statues is nothing but an anti-Catholic canard. Protestants will hang on to it thinking they can prove the Catholic Church not being the One True Church. It just makes them appear ignorant.

 

[clarktaylor]

And to answer someone else who asked how many times I need to read to Sermon on the Mount to understand it, that wasn’t the point. Maybe I’ve read it a 100 times but it never fails to INSPIRE me, which was the point. If I look at a statue of, for example, St. Anne, Mother of Mary (but not mentioned in Scripture). How can that possibly inspire me or help me in any way? When we know nothing reliable about her?

 

[Cling2Cross]

No more than the Bible is. Could you get along without the Bible? Catholics can. We have a teaching Church to guide us, but that doesn’t mean we’re going toss Scripture in the trash can. We have BOTH the teaching Church and Word of God. Can we do without statues/images? Sure, but why would we want to? This hullabaloo about statues is nothing but an anti-Catholic canard. Protestants will hang on to it thinking they can prove the Catholic Church not being the One True Church. It just makes them appear ignorant.

You basically said that you can live without food…

Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. (Job 23:12 KJV)

But…His Word is sufficient and necessary - for by it I was born again…

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:23 KJV)

His Word is necessary - statues are not and become a hindrance.

C2C

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24 KJV)

 

[Wholly_Spirit]

Well i don’t think this thread is going to go anywhere.

As I said in my first post, Paul describes Greek statues as idols. I don’t see any difference between them and a Catholic statue of, for example, the Virgin.

 

[Cling2Cross]

Why is the 2nd commandment missing in some places in the Catholic arena?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; (Exodus 20:3-5 KJV)

 

[clarktaylor]

So, how can they be idols? They’re nothing but a statue.

 

[Wholly_Spirit]

And to answer someone else who asked how many times I need to read to Sermon on the Mount to understand it, that wasn’t the point. Maybe I’ve read it a 100 times but it never fails to INSPIRE me, which was the point.

The point is, why can’t you look at a statue and immediately bring to mind what it stands for? That is only possible if you’re totally ignorant of the statues meaning or you’re brain dead. You’re myopic. Read some history.

If I look at a statue of, for example, St. Anne, Mother of Mary (but not mentioned in Scripture). How can that possibly inspire me or help me in any way? When we know nothing reliable about her?

That’s your problem. You don’t know anything because you are afraid you’re going to hell if you read anything but the Bible. A Catholic KNOWS about St. Anne.

 

[clarktaylor]

A Catholic KNOWS about St. Anne.

How?? From the apocrypha?? The apocrypha also says that the young Jesus killed kids when he fell out with them. Do you believe that too??

 

[Church_Militant]

And to answer someone else who asked how many times I need to read to Sermon on the Mount to understand it, that wasn’t the point. Maybe I’ve read it a 100 times but it never fails to INSPIRE me, which was the point. If I look at a statue of, for example, St. Anne, Mother of Mary (but not mentioned in Scripture). How can that possibly inspire me or help me in any way? When we know nothing reliable about her?

No… YOU know nothing reliable about her.

Why? Because you do not take the time to read the ECF and you act as if all early Christian history is unreliable, which is not scholarship, it’s biased rejection of same.

The careful study (as St. Paul tells Timothy here, and notice that he does not say just the scriptures.) of these things will offer far better insight than the preaching and teaching of those whose roots are in a 500 year old revision of the Word of God.

I have read The Martyrdom of Polycarp and The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans and The Didache and I can draw a great deal of inspiration and knowledge from them. Since no one can artistically accurately represent their looks any more than anyone can do so with Our Lord Himself, then I can find nothing wrong in allowing an image, (that I KNOW is not the person) to at least offer me a focus and inspiration as well.

The fact is that Iconoclasm actually came into being in the 800s and was a direct influence of Islam…not Christianity. I personally prefer to follow Christian belief and practice than those inspired by Talliban-like fundamentalist non-Christian ones.