K
Kendy
Guest
It may not matter to you, but it may matter to the person planning to engage in the risky sexual behavior.
Kendy
- Status
Kendy
K
Karin
Guest
is a “good lay” worth risking your life for?
what the heck are these people thinking with…obviously not their brains if they are willing to risk their lives for a “roll in the hay”
D
dmm2000
Guest
But driving a car is not a sin against God, putting on a seat belt is a prudent decsion, and it is natural in the act of driving a care. Having sex someone with HIV is not prudent, and using a condom is not a natural act in sexual union.
M
MilesXpisti
Guest
I for one am offended by the statement that the more conservative elements of this board do not represent the mainstream of Catholicism. I’ve found in my dealings with the Church that more often than not, the younger people of my generation are falling in love with orthodoxy again (thanks to our wonderful Holy Father), unlike the 60s generation, which has no law except do what thou wilt.
What you feel about Church teaching is irrelevant. What other Catholics feel about Church teaching is irrelevant. Moral and Natural Law is not decided by committee. Perhaps you’ve come to many years into your life to change your ways, but I can’t help that. I only ask that you don’t infect another generation, many still unfamiliar with the faith, with this moral relativism ****.
S
setter
Guest
You keep missing or bypassing the essential points of reality and our commission duty at Catholics to give a compelling witness to the Truth.
“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10: 28
2419 “Christian revelation . . . promotes deeper understanding of the laws of social living.” The Church receives from the Gospel the full revelation of the truth about man. When she fulfills her mission of proclaiming the Gospel, she bears witness to man, in the name of Christ, to his dignity and his vocation to the communion of persons. She teaches him the demands of justice and peace in conformity with divine wisdom. (CCC)
G
gelsbern
Guest
A person with HIV is a loaded weapon so to speak, and I am comparing the the reduced risk of killing. If ammunition is old, it has a reduced risk of firing, BUT that does not mean that it is safe. A condom may reduce the risk of passing on a deadly disease, but that does not make it safe. What percent of chance are you willing to take that you will pass a slow painful death to someone you love? If someone said "Hey, we’re going to put a rope around your wife’s (husband’s) neck until they pass out. Oh, there is a 1 in a million chance it might kill them. Would you do it?
Even if it is only 1 out of a trillion, to me that is too much of a risk to cause the death of someone you love.
G
gelsbern
Guest
I think you are misunderstanding me. I am saying reduced risk still equals some risk of passing on a slow painful suffering agonizing death. So reduced risk means nothing if there is still the chance to kill someone. It would be like saying, I am drunk, I live across the street, I have a reduced risk of running over anyone in my car. Even though the risk is reduced, it is still wrong to do.
S
setter
Guest
In all sobriety, I offer again to those who openly and wantonly dissent in public earshot from Church teaching in matters of faith and morals:
“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea.” Mark 9: 42
M
MilesXpisti
Guest
Well said, as always, setter.
It’s just that I see someone promoting the decaying message of the generation that should’ve done the most good with the teachings of Vatican II but instead are guilty of the grossest dereliction, trying to pawn off moral relativism, and feel-good, lesser-of-two-evils theology on impressionable youth, many of whom have never had the benefit of proper instruction. They use threats of vague future mishaps that are just as easily avoidable if one holds to the faith. They cry that this is the real world and nobody lives up to that standard of the Church these days. 
It just makes me see red. Many of them would suggest that we shouldn’t involve ourselves in the lives of our brethren. To them I would submit:…if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Secundum Matthæum 18,15-17
And the Lord said to Cain: Where is thy brother Abel? And he answered, I know not: am I my brother’s keeper? Liber Genesis 4,9
S
setter
Guest
I totally agree …where has the sense of community accountability gone? Unfortunately, you try that on a fellow dissenting Catholic (either out of ignorance or knowing) and you will likely get a cold stare, an offensive comment (“mind your own business”) or accusation of being judgmental, holier than thou, get the plank out of your … rebuttal. We are sorely lacking in a personal fellowship and accountability in the Body of Christ.
Keep up the good fight fueled by zeal for the gospel truth!
J
jmcrae
Guest
Just because they are Catholic in name doesn’t mean that they are going to go to Heaven. Jesus tells us that the way we show that we love Him (and thus become able to join with Him in Heaven) is to obey Him. Jesus set up the Church and gave the Church all of the information about how to obey Him.
People who follow a well-drawn map are more likely to arrive at their destination than people who wander off the trail to follow their own opinions.
These “by the book” Catholics are looking at the “map” and saying, “Hey, Heaven is this way - you can’t go over that way; you have to come this way.”
Yes, they may seem a little strident and excitable - you would, too, if you were watching someone fall down a hole and into a very painful eternity.
K
Kendy
Guest
I am not missing anything. I have at no point suggested that a person with HIV should have sexual relations. In fact, I have stated plainly that the only loving thing to do is to abstain. I have not now, nor do I intend to promote the use of condoms as opposed to abstinence. I do not believe that non-marital sexual relations are licit. My only point is that if one were to ignore the moral implications of their sexual misconduct then I would hope that they would at least consider ways in which they could MINIMIZE harm to themselves or other people involve.
Kendy
K
Kendy
Guest
I don’t understand the drunken example.
K
Kendy
Guest
Millions of people engage in risky sexual behavior all the time. If I walk into the local bar tonight, I am pretty sure that before the evening ends, I will spot someone taking home a complete stranger before the evening ends. A Duke University survey found that more than half of the students had never gone on a formal date, and that their romantic lives were limited to “hook ups” at dorm parties. People enage in risky sexual behavior for a lot of reason— loneliness, father-wounds, confusion about human sexuality, etc. All of these causes of immoral behavior need to be addressed; people need to be healed and prayed for.is a “good lay” worth risking your life for?
what the heck are these people thinking with…obviously not their brains if they are willing to risk their lives for a “roll in the hay”
When I hear that young women graduate from college without ever going on a date, but having slept with several men it saddens me. I obviously don’t wish that they would continue this lifestyle, but I have a hard time looking at that situation and being extra upset that they used a condom on top of it. Seriously, in such cases, it is hardly the greatest concern. Without the condom, they may have gotten pregnant and aborted the baby, this is much worst.
Of course, we need to stand our ground, but we also need not be disconnected from the world we live. We need to have some perspective, pick our battles, and more importantly, engage people were they are so that we can bring them where they should be.
Kendy
K
Kendy
Guest
Honestly, it’s not just the beliefs. I happen to agree with most of these issues. I think it’s more the tone. It’s the same reason why people resent evangelicals constantly quoting scripture. You have to do more than quote the right passage. You have lovingly engage other people; Nobody will care how much you know if they don’t feel like you understand. If I say abortion is objectively evil, it is very unlikely that the abortion bound woman is going to be moved. If I say, I know how you feel because I have been here, and I am sorry that you are going through this, but we can help, I have a listener. Love and sympathy communicate, and it’s through real communication that we convert.
I challenge you to find one person who was converted because someone quoted lots of scripture or the CCC.
F
Faith1960
Guest
Excellent post!
I’d like to read some answers on the following questions. For those here who are against condom use, what if your sons or daughters have premarital sex? Do you want them to be as safe as they can possibly be while being sexually active or do you want them to forgo condom use and have sex without using anything whil;e dramatically increasing their chances of contracting an STD or becoming pregnant? Forget the whole “I don’t want them having premarital sex” comments because I’d venture to say that none of us want our kids having premarital sex. And let’s not skirt the issue and go off on the whole “condoms aren’t 100% effective against pregnancy and STD’s” conversation because nobody is saying otherwise. 
The fact is, condoms do reduce one’s chances of becoming pregnant and contracting a sexually transmitted illness. So, again, if your kids are sexually active and will continue to be, do you want them to use condoms or forgo condoms and que sera sera?
J
jmcrae
Guest
Turn them over my knee, paddle their bums (hey if the girlfriend/boyfriend is allowed, then so am I), and then sit them down and let them know how badly disappointed I am in their behaviour.Excellent post!
Why is it a choice between condoms and unprotected sex? Your children should know your point of view, and be motivated to obey you.
Just because it’s sex doesn’t mean there can’t be family consequences - you disappoint me, you’re going to know about it, and there are going to be unpleasant consequences - I am going to be a bear to live with until you get your act together, and that’s just that.
Don’t like the idea of being treated like a three year old? Well, then, “Honour thy father and thy mother so that thy days may be long in the land that the Lord has given unto thee.”
Maybe while we’re at it, we could say to them, “Oh, don’t drink and drive. But if you do, please wear your seat belt!!” Because, hey, we wouldn’t want them to hurt themselves while drinking and driving, would we?
Seatbelts also protect people from severe injury in an automobile accident, but nobody who is in their right mind would ever tell a kid that “if you absolutely can’t control yourself and you must drink and drive, then make sure to wear your seatbelt.”Forget the whole “I don’t want them having premarital sex” comments because I’d venture to say that none of us want our kids having premarital sex. And let’s not skirt the issue and go off on the whole “condoms aren’t 100% effective against pregnancy and STD’s” conversation because nobody is saying otherwise.
A lot of kids drink and drive, but we don’t just throw up our hands and say, “OOH, well, we can’t really do anything about it, so let’s just make sure they’re safe while they’re doing it” - no, not at all.
Instead, when we hear that teens are having a drinking party, we call the Check Stop, and the Check Stop sets up breathalyzers at either end of the street, and hauls the little reprobates into jail to sleep it off. And if our own kid is one of those who is taken away to jail, then you better believe that he experiences further consequences at home, too. I don’t know of a single parent who would allow their kid to get away with something like that just because “everyone’s doing it, Dad.”
If we can have Zero Tolerance for teen drinking and driving (which “they all do” supposedly) then families can also have Zero Tolerance for sex before marriage - even though “everyone’s doing it.” (And they’re not. I read a statistic yesterday that nearly 30% of people are still virgins at the time of marriage - and I would expect that most people only have one or two partners prior to marriage, including their fiance(e). )
C
CRW
Guest
A very interesting topic concerning Condoms & HIV/AIDS by Jimmy Akin posted 2 May 2006 at" jimmyakin.org/2006/05/condoms_hivaids.html
F
Faith1960
Guest
Nobody’s saying that there won’t be family consequences if the teen chooses this route. Kids should listen to their parents but to assume that teaching them right from wrong is going to result in all teens doing what they’re told and not having premarital sex, is beyond unrealistic. My question was IF they are having sex, (unbeknownst to you or with your knowledge) do you want them to forgo any chance at protecting themselves by using a condom or continue to have sex without one and increase their risk of getting pregnant or an STD?
) Maybe while we’re at it, we could say to them, “Oh, don’t drink and drive. But if you do, please wear your seat belt!!” Because, hey, we wouldn’t want them to hurt themselves while drinking and driving, would we?
)That, IMO, is a poor analogy. A better analogy would be “Don’t drink but if you make the dumb choice to do so, never get behind the wheel of a car.”
)
A lot of kids drink and drive, but we don’t just throw up our hands and say, “OOH, well, we can’t really do anything about it, so let’s just make sure they’re safe while they’re doing it” - no, not at all. )
No, of couse we don’t do that. We educate them about not drinking and make it crystal clear that if they ever DO decide to make a bad choice such as to drink while underage, they should never drive or get in a car with someone who has been drinking. As parents, we don’t just say “don’t do this because I said so” or “don’t do this because God doesn’t want you to,” you give them all the information they need to make the best choices for themselves and then give them more information about what to do in the event they do make a bad choice. The ultimate goal is their health and safety.
)
Instead, when we hear that teens are having a drinking party, we call the Check Stop, and the Check Stop sets up breathalyzers at either end of the street, and hauls the little reprobates into jail to sleep it off. And if our own kid is one of those who is taken away to jail, then you better believe that he experiences further consequences at home, too. I don’t know of a single parent who would allow their kid to get away with something like that just because “everyone’s doing it, Dad.” )
Neither do I. But apparently teaching them to not drink didn’t work in those cases. And think of all the other parties where there isn’t a Check Stop to prevent them from driving off into the night. It would be much better if, in addition to being educated about underage drinking and overimbibing, they had it pounded into their heads to NEVER drive after drinking or get in the car where the driver has been drinking. It doubles the chances that they’ll come home safely.
)
If we can have Zero Tolerance for teen drinking and driving (which “they all do” supposedly) )
They don’t “all do” that here. Some do, of course, but I’m very pleased to know that there are many teens in our area (we live in the suburbs of a large metro area) are very much against drinking and driving. They’ve been well educated by their parents and the schools, not to mention, they’ve learned a few lessons after some horrific accidents involving teens who didn’t take heed all the warnings.
)then families can also have Zero Tolerance for sex before marriage - even though “everyone’s doing it.” )
LOT’S of parents have Zero Tolerance for teens and premarital sex, just like they have a Zero Tolerance for underage drinking or lying or whatever. That doesn’t mean the teens won’t make a choice to do it anyway, with or without the parent’s knowledge.
)
(And they’re not. I read a statistic yesterday that nearly 30% of people are still virgins at the time of marriage - and I would expect that most people only have one or two partners prior to marriage, including their fiance(e). )
Only 30%. That’s a very low number, though I think I read a stat some time ago that put it even lower than 30%. Let’s go with the 30%, though. That means that 70% of the American population is having premarital sex. If none of them use condoms that’s an awful lot of people increasing their chances of getting an STD or pregnant. Not a promising thought.
- Status