If a person dies and he did not repent is there any way he can go to heaven?

[Paul_theApostle]

If a person were to die suddenly, and he had a mortal sin on his soul, but he had not repented, God will judge him, but the Church teaches you cannot go to heaven with a mortal sin. I am a little confused on this topic. Lets say that person who had a mortal sin on his soul was going to repent sometime in the future, but his life was cut short by someone who abused their own free will and shot and killed him. This person had a mortal sin on his soul and he died, but his life was taken by someone else who abused his free will, so this person may have repented later on in life, but he couldn’t. Does this person go to Heaven or have a chance to go to Heaven?

What do you mean ‘was going to repent sometime in the future’ and that even God knew about that person repenting in the future

The ‘future’ of that person didnt exist

Dont you think God knew when that person would die?

Do you think God planned to take that person in 20 years but some murderer killed him before that time?

Dont you think God had a part to play in the death of that person 20 years before he was 'supposed ’ to die according to your logic?

doesnt make sense…

 

[jcrichton]

So you think that confessing to a priest is the only way to get your sins forgiven? You don’t think Jesus can do it Himself?

What I am saying is that Jesus institution of the Sacrament of Confession would be superfluous if all we need do is do a prayer and tell Jesus/the Father ‘you know my weaknesses, I’m sorry, please forgive me–thanks!’

Do you recall the reason cited by some of why they wanted to kill Jesus?.. at one time Jesus check them and asked for which of the good works that He performed did they want to kill Him? …the reply was exact and flat: ‘…not for any good work… but you, being a man, make yourself equal to God!’

The people of Israel did not understand that Jesus was God and that He could delegate His Authority to His Disciples–which He did through the Sacraments.

Is it possible for a person to go to Christ/the Father or even the Holy Spirit and truly repent from his/her sin? It is quite possible (not being God, I cannot tell what is in the heart of man); but if Christ has given us the means of the Sacraments, through His Church, are we not behaving as Aaron’s son… grabbing any old source instead of the one prescribed to us?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[thistle]

Well Protestants DO repent. They repent and confess their sins to God, not a priest.

The thread is not about that.
The thread is about a person who does NOT repent before dying. Such a person condemns themselves to hell.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

…not a lingust so I truly do not get how Y would sound like a j; and, since I’m truly pedestrian, I am blown with the concept of Jehovah being a derivative of Yahweh?

Maran atha!

Angel

Out of respect for God and their own sinfulness, the Jews after the time of Moses began to refuse to say God’s personal name when publicly reading scripture. As Greeks were mixed company, historically, the Jewish translators substituted a title – “Lord” – for God’s personal name; thus sinners would not use God’s personal name vainly out of Habit.

This is the tradition that the Catholic church inherited when it wrote the new testament in Greek. We say “Lord” in public and liturgy.

You might recall that some song writers began using “Yahweh” in church music; and that recently these songs were made to conform to the Catholic tRADITION: the wording in “Yahweh I know you are near” was changed to “Lord I know you are near”; etc.

In their own scriptures, the Hebrews didn’t change God’s personal name YHWH to a title; rather they wrote ONLY the consonants (YHWH) of God’s personal name in their scriptures and instructed the Lectors to say a different word (Elohym) in public.

As a side effect, not even the Hebrews heard the correct pronunciation of God’s name in public – but rather heard a generic title “Elohim”

Much later in the A.D. times, the Masorite Jews decided to add vowels to their scripture (Their vowels are written as dot’s on the consonants, called vowel points); BUT they wanted to preserve the tradition of not saying God’s personal name in public – Therefore, they took the vowels from Elohim (The word lectors are SUPPOSED to say) and wrote them into scripture between the consonants of God’s personal name YHWH ; which makes a gibberish hybrid name…

Yahweh is NOT supposed to be pronounced as spelled and it is not really how God’s personal name is properly spelled OR spoken.

To get an idea in English of what they did in Hebrew:
Take the vowels in Elohym + four consonants YHWH and you will get yEhOwh
Yehova or Jehovah; I sometimes have witnesses ask me, “Do YOU say JEHOVAH!” – and it just makes me sad, thinking that the Jews – knowing their own oral tradition – have proof that Jehovah witnesses are ignorant. Learned Jews can laugh near them… (or groan).

To get the variation Yahweh; we only need to consider one bit of trivia that scholars sometimes notice:

eg:E’s and A’s often do not change the essence of a word: eg: Eat vs.** A**te;
This pattern happens in many languages over time; Therefore, a slightly wiser scholar might erroneously think that the older (and more right?) pronunciation of Jehovah is “yAhowEh” (Just switch A for E and E for A ) and – sound it out “Yahweh”

When a Jewish translator writes Yahweh in English bibles, they are doing nothing more than following the tradition of their own scriptures spelling out a gibberish name; but the oral tradition of how to pronounce God’s personal name is different from its JEWISH spelling.

O Lord! what a long explanation… may it reach your heart; But as a Catholic apologist I would prefer to see apologists use “Lord” in preference to “Yahweh” (unless working with modern Jews where I SAY “Elohym” no matter how I spell it).
And not to leave the spelling “Yahweh” around so that ignorant people are tricked into saying God’s name wrong esp. when there are better alternatives.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

My apologies in advance to Thistle and as a reminder to others.

I ought to have P.M’d these tangent points or started a new thread.

I think there are mistakes in some answers to the OP, including the use of “Yahweh”, which affect whether or not one “Calls on the NAME of the Lord and is saved”. These aren’t major mistakes obviously – but they are as subtle apologetic time bombs that are best cured by sharing understanding of what God’s name is so that we can Call on it. In the end, it is God who saves (Jesus), that can forgive even mortal sin.

Your brother in Christ, Andrew.

 

[TMC]

The Church has declared that we believe that certain individuals must be in heaven (the saints), but the Church has never declared that any particular person must be in Hell. We do not know the fate of individuals who have passed on, but are taught to hope and pray for the salvation of all. Whether a particular individual repented at the moment of death is unknowable. Whether God chose to save a particular person who did not repent in this life is also unknowable. God can save whomever He pleases, whether Catholic, Protestant, Hindu or atheist–whether we view any of them as repentent or not. It is not for us to say otherwise.

 

[jcrichton]

error

 

[bmullins]

So you think that confessing to a priest is the only way to get your sins forgiven? You don’t think Jesus can do it Himself?

On the contrary we think you can indeed confess directly to Jesus. In fact, we believe Jesus is present in the very Sacrament when we go for reconciliation. You see you see it as confessing to a priest, we see it as confessing in the presence of Christ.

Did the bible not command us to “confess our sins one to another?” Did Jesus not give His Apostles authority when He said "“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”?

Jesus can and does forgive us of our sins. And you can and should pray immediately and repent. The simple fact is the Bible tells us to go confess them, not just to pray about it. This is what confession IS.

 

[jcrichton]

Out of respect for God and their own sinfulness, the Jews after the time of Moses began to refuse to say God’s personal name when publicly reading scripture. As Greeks were mixed company, historically, the Jewish translators substituted a title – “Lord” – for God’s personal name; thus sinners would not use God’s personal name vainly out of Habit.

This is the tradition that the Catholic church inherited when it wrote the new testament in Greek. We say “Lord” in public and liturgy.

You might recall that some song writers began using “Yahweh” in church music; and that recently these songs were made to conform to the Catholic tRADITION: the wording in “Yahweh I know you are near” was changed to “Lord I know you are near”; etc.

In their own scriptures, the Hebrews didn’t change God’s personal name YHWH to a title; rather they wrote ONLY the consonants (YHWH) of God’s personal name in their scriptures and instructed the Lectors to say a different word (Elohym) in public.

As a side effect, not even the Hebrews heard the correct pronunciation of God’s name in public – but rather heard a generic title “Elohim”

Much later in the A.D. times, the Masorite Jews decided to add vowels to their scripture (Their vowels are written as dot’s on the consonants, called vowel points); BUT they wanted to preserve the tradition of not saying God’s personal name in public – Therefore, they took the vowels from Elohim (The word lectors are SUPPOSED to say) and wrote them into scripture between the consonants of God’s personal name YHWH ; which makes a gibberish hybrid name…

Yahweh is NOT supposed to be pronounced as spelled and it is not really how God’s personal name is properly spelled OR spoken.

To get an idea in English of what they did in Hebrew:
Take the vowels in Elohym + four consonants YHWH and you will get yEhOwh
Yehova or Jehovah; I sometimes have witnesses ask me, “Do YOU say JEHOVAH!” – and it just makes me sad, thinking that the Jews – knowing their own oral tradition – have proof that Jehovah witnesses are ignorant. Learned Jews can laugh near them… (or groan).

To get the variation Yahweh; we only need to consider one bit of trivia that scholars sometimes notice:

eg:E’s and A’s often do not change the essence of a word: eg: Eat vs.** A**te;
This pattern happens in many languages over time; Therefore, a slightly wiser scholar might erroneously think that the older (and more right?) pronunciation of Jehovah is “yAhowEh” (Just switch A for E and E for A ) and – sound it out “Yahweh”

When a Jewish translator writes Yahweh in English bibles, they are doing nothing more than following the tradition of their own scriptures spelling out a gibberish name; but the oral tradition of how to pronounce God’s personal name is different from its JEWISH spelling.

O Lord! what a long explanation… may it reach your heart; But as a Catholic apologist I would prefer to see apologists use “Lord” in preference to “Yahweh” (unless working with modern Jews where I SAY “Elohym” no matter how I spell it).
And not to leave the spelling “Yahweh” around so that ignorant people are tricked into saying God’s name wrong esp. when there are better alternatives.

…thanks for the explannation… it has been the most explicative thus far…

…not to beat a dead dunky down… but where in Scriptures does God Command that His Name not be mentioned/used… did He not Command Moses that when he Blessed the people of Israel he should bless them in the Name (not title) “X”?

…and seeking to not beat down that dead dunky any further (but as it was said in a movie once “I have to know…”) what is the Hebrew expression for “I AM” or “I AM WHO AM?”

Thank you for your patience and your generous assistance!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Huiou_Theou]

…thanks for the explannation… it has been the most explicative thus far…

…not to beat a dead dunky down… but where in Scriptures does God Command that His Name not be mentioned/used… did He not Command Moses that when he Blessed the people of Israel he should bless them in the Name (not title) “X”?

He told Moses to speak his name to the Israelites in Egypt three ways; not just one.
It is possible that man’s tongue can’t pronounce it all at once… I have heard some people say his name is “ineffable”.

But this says it isn’t entirely so:
Exodu 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain.

Vain means empty, fruitless. If you use God’s name, produce fruit; Holy Children unto the Lord who will do as he asks. God gave HIS name to the Jews as a people.

Isaia 52:3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.
Isaia 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
Isaia 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD;** and my name continually every day is blasphemed**.
Isaia 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

…and seeking to not beat down that dead dunky any further (but as it was said in a movie once “I have to know…”) what is the Hebrew expression for “I AM” or “I AM WHO AM?”

Thank you for your patience and your generous assistance!

Maran atha!

Angel

Fr. Jim Stenge (of Scappoose) pointed out that Jews are called that because of WHOM they worship. That word “Jews”, then Angel, is really pretty close to an oral tradition of one way God’s name was pronounced. The “w” is a letter called “uav” in herbrew, It can have either the ‘u’ or the ‘v/w’ (double U) sound.

The name Jesus is literally “God saves”, The name Judah is also God’s personal name with an extra letter, the ‘d’ which is the fourth letter of the aleph bet of the Jews. God gave another (4th child) to Leah; so she named him God’s 4th… (I am fourth?)

Remove the ‘d’ from Judah, and it sounds remarkably like “Jew + …” a little more spirited breath at the end.

There may be three pronunciations, I don’t know exactly; but I have told you as much as I can.

For them, the Jews which bear his name, when they do ill, God’s name is also spoken ill of. For when people put down the “Jews” they also put down God inadvertently. eg: they use God’s name in vain thinking that the people are empty.

 

[jcrichton]

He told Moses to speak his name to the Israelites in Egypt three ways; not just one.
It is possible that man’s tongue can’t pronounce it all at once… I have heard some people say his name is “ineffable”.

But this says it isn’t entirely so:
Exodu 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain.

Vain means empty, fruitless. If you use God’s name, produce fruit; Holy Children unto the Lord who will do as he asks. God gave HIS name to the Jews as a people.

Isaia 52:3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.
Isaia 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
Isaia 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD;** and my name continually every day is blasphemed**.
Isaia 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

Fr. Jim Stenge (of Scappoose) pointed out that Jews are called that because of WHOM they worship. That word “Jews”, then Angel, is really pretty close to an oral tradition of one way God’s name was pronounced. The “w” is a letter called “uav” in herbrew, It can have either the ‘u’ or the ‘v/w’ (double U) sound.

The name Jesus is literally “God saves”, The name Judah is also God’s personal name with an extra letter, the ‘d’ which is the fourth letter of the aleph bet of the Jews. God gave another (4th child) to Leah; so she named him God’s 4th… (I am fourth?)

Remove the ‘d’ from Judah, and it sounds remarkably like “Jew + …” a little more spirited breath at the end.

There may be three pronunciations, I don’t know exactly; but I have told you as much as I can.

For them, the Jews which bear his name, when they do ill, God’s name is also spoken ill of. For when people put down the “Jews” they also put down God inadvertently. eg: they use God’s name in vain thinking that the people are empty.

…the point I was attempting was that “Lord” is not a name but a title (so it is not quite probable that the Mighty One would err in such fashion) and that the Command is to not take/pronounce His Name in vain (for ill/wicked means)… to my pedestrian understanding, it is God Himself that Command Moses to both reveal His Name (I AM WHO AM) and to bless Israel in His Name (I Am your God YWHW, and there is no other)… so if “I AM WHO AM” is written as YWHW, what is the most correct (without the insertion of additional letters) pronounciation of God’s Name (not seeking to disrespect Jewish cultural hang ups)?

…as for “Jew” being God’s Name, where was this revealed (place in time)? …my understanding, from Scriptures, is that God name Jacob, Israel and the people of Israel became known as Hebrews during their stay in Egypt… but I cannot recall a passage in Scriptures where the transition from Judah to Jew develops–and would that not pertain to the clan of Judah and not all of Israel?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Huiou_Theou]

…the point I was attempting was that “Lord” is not a name but a title (so it is not quite probable that the Mighty One would err in such fashion) and that the Command is to not take/pronounce His Name in vain (for ill/wicked means)… to my pedestrian understanding, it is God Himself that Command Moses to both reveal His Name (I AM WHO AM) and to bless Israel in His Name (I Am your God YWHW, and there is no other)… so if “I AM WHO AM” is written as YWHW, what is the most correct (without the insertion of additional letters) pronounciation of God’s Name (not seeking to disrespect Jewish cultural hang ups)?

YHWH are the four letters translitterated into English that we have from scripture.

…as for “Jew” being God’s Name, where was this revealed? …my understanding, from Scriptures, is that God name Jacob, Israel and the people of Israel became known as Hebrews during their stay in Egypt… but I cannot recall a passage in Scriptures where the transition from Judah to Jew develops–and would that not pertain to the clan of Judah and not all of Israel?

Again, the specific remark came from a priest, Fr. Jim Stenge in Scappoose,OR.
I don’t know his sources; but I do know that the letters of the name “Jew” or “Jews” follows the same pattern as “Judah” in the NT. “King of the Jews”

Yes, it would pertain to a particular clan; Judah. But don’t forget that only Judah and Benjamen (One from Leah, the other from Rachel) were left to go into Babylonian captivity. The other tribes were more or less destroyed and did not return to the promised land. God “reduced” the people of Israel (the northern kingdom was wiped out) and basically kept Judah for his Name’s sake. Being as Judah actually bears God’s personal name is one reason that it is special.

The passage that is important is this one:
Genes 29:35 The fourth time she conceived and bore a son, and said: Now will I praise the Lord: and for this she called him Juda. And she left bearing.

This was Leah/Lia(s) last son. Notice how his name is explained in terms of “praise the Lord”; That title, LORD, is where the proper name YHWH is replaced by in OT Greek. Lia called upon God’s personal name when naming her child in praise of him.

Judah is spelled YHdWH .( sounds like Youda)

What Leah is telling us it that Judah’s name contains the PERSONAL name (At least in parts) of their God in order to praise him. We know that the Vowels added after Jesus’ death were not in the original Hebrew, and we know that the vowels from a different name “elohym” were added to prevent a liturgical mistake according to Jewish liturgical rules. (Not ours, and not Moses’ rules) The rest is just guesswork – but all suggestions do converge on one particular sounding name. One with YHWH in it.

The “W” letter called “uav”, can make either the “u” or the “v” sound.
Without adding different letters, but just spelling the alternate sound out –
YHuH is one potential pronunciation. The hard “J” sound is used by Germans and Engish in place of “Y”, but I have been told that a true “Y” sound is more correct.
I don’t have proof beyond what I have shown you, ah bout.

Maran atha!

Angel

Blessed be the Lord. Peace to you this advent season, Angel.
Your brother in Christ, --Andrew.

 

[jcrichton]

YHWH are the four letters translitterated into English that we have from scripture.

Again, the specific remark came from a priest, Fr. Jim Stenge in Scappoose,OR.
I don’t know his sources; but I do know that the letters of the name “Jew” or “Jews” follows the same pattern as “Judah” in the NT. “King of the Jews”

Yes, it would pertain to a particular clan; Judah. But don’t forget that only Judah and Benjamen (One from Leah, the other from Rachel) were left to go into Babylonian captivity. The other tribes were more or less destroyed and did not return to the promised land. God “reduced” the people of Israel (the northern kingdom was wiped out) and basically kept Judah for his Name’s sake. Being as Judah actually bears God’s personal name is one reason that it is special.

The passage that is important is this one:
Genes 29:35 The fourth time she conceived and bore a son, and said: Now will I praise the Lord: and for this she called him Juda. And she left bearing.

This was Leah/Lia(s) last son. Notice how his name is explained in terms of “praise the Lord”; That title, LORD, is where the proper name YHWH is replaced by in OT Greek. Lia called upon God’s personal name when naming her child in praise of him.

Judah is spelled YHdWH .( sounds like Youda)

What Leah is telling us it that Judah’s name contains the PERSONAL name (At least in parts) of their God in order to praise him. We know that the Vowels added after Jesus’ death were not in the original Hebrew, and we know that the vowels from a different name “elohym” were added to prevent a liturgical mistake according to Jewish liturgical rules. (Not ours, and not Moses’ rules) The rest is just guesswork – but all suggestions do converge on one particular sounding name. One with YHWH in it.

The “W” letter called “uav”, can make either the “u” or the “v” sound.
Without adding different letters, but just spelling the alternate sound out –
YHuH is one potential pronunciation. The hard “J” sound is used by Germans and Engish in place of “Y”, but I have been told that a true “Y” sound is more correct.
I don’t have proof beyond what I have shown you, ah bout.

Blessed be the Lord. Peace to you this advent season, Angel.
Your brother in Christ, --Andrew.

Thanks, Andrew; I truly appreciate your assistance!

God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel