If a soul is not made of anything, how can it think, will, etc.?

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I searched the question “What’s a soul made of” on CAF, and I found an answer from Fr. Vincent:
The soul in non-corporeal. This means that it is not physical. To speak of it being made of something is to speak of it as somehow physical. Speaking of it in terms of energy is still corporeal. Energy can be measured. One cannot measure the soul.
Of course I knew that our souls are not matter. They are spirits. I searched that Q to see if I could get any more information.

I’m confused on how our souls can think and will if it is not made of anything. How can our souls think if they are invisible? How does this work?

thanks

👍
 
The soul is a spiritual substance. It is not made of matter, but it is still a substance. Since it is not made of matter, it does not have any material accidents. The better question is, if the mind, will, and intellect are just matter, how can we think? Matter does not do changes of variables, no matter how you arrange it.
 
The soul is a substance. It is not made of matter, but it is still a substance. The better question is, if the mind, will, and intellect are just matter, how can we think? Matter does not do change of variables, no matter what you do with it.
What does it mean for a soul to be a substance? Thanks.

Also, I understand that the mind, will, and intellect can help lead us to know that we humans are more than just matter. I guess I get that. I just don’t get how a soul can “think” if it’s made of no parts. But then again, I guess I’m assuming that matter has an important role in thinking—How the brain is involved I guess is still being debated/
 
What does it mean for a soul to be a substance? Thanks.
awatkins69 was reffering to substance theory.

The soul has an existence that is substantial and real; ie; it exists in the world. However; it’s existence is not a physical sort of existence - in that it does not exist like this or that chair; or this or that energy. Nonetheless; it exists in the world.

Think of it this way; our mind’s exist in this world; but they are neither physical nor energetic; but they have a real sort of existance that is greater than a mere concept.

It is clear that the Mind and the Rational Soul of man are really identical; that is to say they do not have a seperate existance from one another; although they are distinct; this distinction is called the formal distinction. It makes distinct the existing substance of our mind and our soul.

What awatkins was saying is that as the soul is not a physical or energetic substance; it does not have what are called “accidents” such as a shape or a particular form that constitute part of what it is; in other words; there are no physical or energetic material elements to it; but it does have a substance that it is composed of - which is distinct from physical and energetic substances.
 
there are no physical or energetic material elements to it; but it does have a substance that it is composed of - which is distinct from physical and energetic substances.
But it is actually made of something? Just not matter or energy?
 
Sorry I wasn’t clear. JohnDamian explained it better than I could. Basically, we believe the soul does those things, but it uses the brain as a tool, so to speak. The soul has potential, but the potential is realized in matter, because we are human beings, not just angels. But if that matter is deficient, then the potential cannot be realized. Thus we end up with mental illness, problems due to age, etc.
 
Sorry I wasn’t clear. JohnDamian explained it better than I could. Basically, we believe the soul does those things, but it uses the brain as a tool, so to speak. The soul has potential, but the potential is realized in matter, because we are human beings, not just angels. But if that matter is deficient, then the potential cannot be realized. Thus we end up with mental illness, problems due to age, etc.
OK-- but angels are pure spirits without bodies, and they can think and have intellects.
So I guess the question is how can a spirit think if it has no parts?
 
Well, the intellect is immaterial. It doesn’t need parts to think. At least, that’s what Saint Thomas teaches.
 
But it is actually made of something? Just not matter or energy?
Yes.

To quote directly from “the philosopher” (Aristotle) himself; “Substance, in the truest and primary and most definitive sense of the word, is that which is neither predicable of a subject nor present in a subject; for instance, the individual man or horse”

That is to say; substance is the thing underlying “predicates” or definitions. So; if I was to describe my desk I could name all the predicates such as “wooden” “solid” and so forth; but underlying the desk there is a substance which we are attributing the predicates too.

Now; the substance of the soul for humans have the “predicates” of immortal; rational and so forth; but these predicates (definitions) are applied to some underlying thing; which exists in reality.

However; the existence of the soul is not a material existance (like my desk) as if it was we could then sensibly apply predicates (definitions) such as “solid” too it. This would be confusing and illogical. So when we say we cannot apply “accidents” to the soul; it means we cannot apply material predicates such as “solid” to the soul, because the soul is of a different genus.

Now; by Genus, Aristotle means things which are seperated by distinct “differentia” or differences; such as there is a Genus for animals, and a Genus for rocks. There is also a Genus for “physically material things”, “energeticly material things” and “spiritual things”; it is clear that we cannot apply all the predicates of “spiritual things” to “material things”; we cannot say this desk is “rational” in the same way we cannot say this soul is “solid”.

I hope that clears it up a bit.
So I guess the question is how can a spirit think if it has no parts?
It can think; because the soul is really identical to the mind; they cannot exist without one another. However; they are formally distinct. This distinction comes from Bl. Duns Scotus.
Well, the intellect is immaterial. It doesn’t need parts to think. At least, that’s what Saint Thomas teaches.
Aquinas recognised the fact that souls are really identical to mind’s, but never formulated a theory to justify how we see them as seperate. It was not until the secular clergyman Henry of Ghent developed the theory of intentional distinctions that we see an emerging explantion; this explanation was finally completed by the Fransiscan theologian Bl. Duns Scotus in the Formal Distinction.

👍
 
Well, the intellect is immaterial. It doesn’t need parts to think. At least, that’s what Saint Thomas teaches.
I have to first say SORRY because I know very little of philosophy. I know very little in this area. So sorry for all my questions:

Then how does a spirit “think?”

That Q seems really weird because I don’t think anyone is really able to answer that, since we can’t sit down and "observ"e a soul under a microscope.
 
It’s my fault. I’m not good at explaining these things. I’ll leave that to John.
 
Yes.

To quote directly from “the philosopher” (Aristotle) himself; “Substance, in the truest and primary and most definitive sense of the word, is that which is neither predicable of a subject nor present in a subject; for instance, the individual man or horse”

That is to say; substance is the thing underlying “predicates” or definitions. So; if I was to describe my desk I could name all the predicates such as “wooden” “solid” and so forth; but underlying the desk there is a substance which we are attributing the predicates too.

Now; the substance of the soul for humans have the “predicates” of immortal; rational and so forth; but these predicates (definitions) are applied to some underlying thing; which exists in reality.

However; the existence of the soul is not a material existance (like my desk) as if it was we could then sensibly apply predicates (definitions) such as “solid” too it. This would be confusing and illogical. So when we say we cannot apply “accidents” to the soul; it means we cannot apply material predicates such as “solid” to the soul, because the soul is of a different genus.

Now; by Genus, Aristotle means things which are seperated by distinct “differentia” or differences; such as there is a Genus for animals, and a Genus for rocks. There is also a Genus for “physically material things”, “energeticly material things” and “spiritual things”; it is clear that we cannot apply all the predicates of “spiritual things” to “material things”; we cannot say this desk is “rational” in the same way we cannot say this soul is “solid”.

I hope that clears it up a bit.
Yes it does, a lot. Thanks. I guess my error was EQUATING soul (spirit) with intellect and will. But now I understand the soul really IS a substance that has these “predicates” (as you said).
 
It’s my fault. I’m not good at explaining these things. I’ll leave that to John.
No, you’re fine. I’m grateful of all your answers so far!
It’s just hard for me to comprehend all of this. Like I said, I basically no little philosophy.
 
I searched the question “What’s a soul made of” on CAF, and I found an answer from Fr. Vincent:

Of course I knew that our souls are not matter. They are spirits. I searched that Q to see if I could get any more information.

I’m confused on how our souls can think and will if it is not made of anything. How can our souls think if they are invisible? How does this work?
“anything” is the keyword. You probably associate all mental activities with the brain but the brain is a biochemical computer which does not know it exists and does not control itself. Consciousness, insight, inspiration, reasoning, choosing and willing cannot be explained by physical energy which is blind and purposeless. They are intangible realities which reveal the spiritual dimension of a person and they presuppose spiritual energy All the most important aspects of life are invisible: truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love… and of course the Source of everything and everyone…
 
Also, I understand that the mind, will, and intellect can help lead us to know that we humans are more than just matter. I guess I get that. I just don’t get how a soul can “think” if it’s made of no parts. But then again, I guess I’m assuming that matter has an important role in thinking—How the brain is involved I guess is still being debated/
The intellectual faculty of the human soul can think because it is not made of parts.

The mind (which is not matter or energy) gets it’s initial (name removed by moderator)ut from the senses, which do use matter and energy as (name removed by moderator)ut. But we are able to think in universals by abstracting out all the particularity of those (name removed by moderator)uts, leaving only the immaterial universal idea.

Angels can be thought of as minds without bodies; while we are minds with bodies. But our thinking process is not the same as angels, who perceive by immediate intuition of reality, whereas we require sensory (name removed by moderator)ut before reaching the stage of abstraction.
 
I searched the question “What’s a soul made of” on CAF, and I found an answer from Fr. Vincent:

Of course I knew that our souls are not matter. They are spirits. I searched that Q to see if I could get any more information.

I’m confused on how our souls can think and will if it is not made of anything. How can our souls think if they are invisible? How does this work?
Our souls are *immaterial *in the sense that they are formal. This goes back to the Aristotelian distinction between matter (which is potency) and form (which is actuality). Consider for example, that all of the atoms in the human body are recycled every few years and yet it remains the same person. All of the matter has changed; that which remained the same after these changes is said to be the form. Make sense? Aquinas explained it as follows:

“[A] body is competent to be a living thing or even a principle of life, as “such” a body. Now that it is actually such a body, it owes to some principle which is called its act. Therefore the soul, which is the first principle of life, is not a body, but the act of a body; thus heat, which is the principle of calefaction, is not a body, but an act of a body.” (Summa Theologica, I, q. 75, a.1)

Nonetheless, since form is distinct from matter, and since the form of the human soul was made to know God (its teleos), the human soul continues to exist after death.

Hope this helps,

-Ryan Vilbig
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com
 
I think this is an easy one, because I believe it is our souls that think. Think about your personality - identical twins think totally different, even though every thing about them is the same, dna, everything. It has to be our souls. Not that the brain isn’t involved, but our individuality, our ideas, that’s our soul.
 
Here’s how Saint Augustine explained the relationship between mind and brain. I think he based his understanding of the brain on Galen’s experiments:

“[T]hese parts [of the brain], affected by some disease or defect, have each made clear enough what they are for by failure in the functions of sense perception, or of movement of limbs, or of remembering how to move the body, and [applying] the appropriate cure to them after examination has established what will be most effective for putting right what was wrong. But the soul is acting in these parts as in, or on, instruments, it is not itself any of these, but it is quickening, animating and controlling them all, and through them looking after the interests of the body and of this life, in which ‘the man was made into a live soul.’” (Literal Meaning of Genesis, Book VII.18)

I think that this *control * that the mind has over the brain is actualized in spontaneous action potentials (article), which are due to quantum properties of sodium channels (article). These firings, when combined in inhibitory and excitatory patterns, give rise to many of the higher functions of animals, like bird calls (article). In this last article, researchers have encountered the bird’s sensitive soul, as it is known in Thomistic philosophy, though they preferred to call such choices random rather than recognizing the bird’s soul.

-Ryan Vilbig
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com
 
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