If abortion is murder, should those responsible be tried for murder? And if found guilty, should they be imprisoned like other murderers?

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If abortion is murder, should those responsible be tried for murder? And if found guilty, should they be imprisoned like other murderers?
  • The mother
  • The abortionist
  • Any friend or family member materially responsible, etc.
(Obviously, I’m assuming that Roe vs. Wade is overturned, and abortion is considered murder by the legal system.)
 
If Roe v. Wade is overturned abortion would not be illegal. It would merely be relegated back to the states to decide. Currently, the states cannot decide as abortion is a constitutionally protected right. If Roe v. Wade was overturned, then it would be up to each particular state’s legislature to write the laws regarding abortion and up to them to enumerate the penalties attached to illegal abortions.
 
The legal systems of a given country need to recognize the human nature of the unborn. This means that murder involving the unborn should be treated the same as murder involving anyone else.
 
While both acts are basically the same objectively, I do believe the mindset involved by those perpetrating the act is generally different. At least in US criminal law, for many crimes, such as murder, the defendant’s mindset matters a great deal. Therefore, if I think the appropriate approach in most cases would be to look at it more like voluntary manslaughter than, say, first degree murder.

I would imagine, as well, that if abortion could be outlawed, it would receive its own legislation and would not be covered simply by existing homicide law–I also think you would see it focused more on nailing the doctors performing the abortions than on the women seeking them
 
Prison should certainly be an option for those who get abortions.
 
Genesis315 said:
While both acts are basically the same objectively, I do believe the mindset involved by those perpetrating the act is generally different.

At least in US criminal law, for many crimes, such as murder, the defendant’s mindset matters a great deal. Therefore, if I think the appropriate approach in most cases would be to look at it more like voluntary manslaughter than, say, first degree murder.
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This is besides the point. The current procedure is innocent until proven guilty. Obviously if the defense maintains mental insanity, manslaughter, accidental death or what have you, it would be up to the prosecution to prove otherwise, however it should still be no different from how the murder of other human beings is prosecuted.
 
mapleoak said:
This is besides the point. The current procedure is innocent until proven guilty. Obviously if the defense maintains mental insanity, manslaughter, accidental death or what have you, it would be up to the prosecution to prove otherwise, however it should still be no different from how the murder of other human beings is prosecuted.
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That’s called an affirmative defense – in essense the defendant admits the act, but claims justification, mental incapacity, and so on. An affirmative defense shifts the burden of proof to the defendant.
 
lepanto said:
If abortion is murder, should those responsible be tried for murder? And if found guilty, should they be imprisoned like other murderers?
  • The mother
  • The abortionist
  • Any friend or family member materially responsible, etc.
(Obviously, I’m assuming that Roe vs. Wade is overturned, and abortion is considered murder by the legal system.)
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I personally feel that the abortionist should be held in a higher degree of guilt. They know what they are doing, they see the tiny hands and feet that they just pulled apart. They know that they just tore apart a person. But the mother and so on (in most cases) are being fooled to think that their child is not a child but a blob. The mother is already confussed and scared and the abortionist lies to her about what her real choices are.

I don’t advocate the death penalty for anyone, but I do think that abortionist should serve their time for murder.
 
this is an old one…gee,then what do we gotta do…imprison the young mommy for killing her baby etc…well first …the ‘doctor’ loses his license to kill…let him get a real job.like being a stock boy in a factory or somethin’…as for the ‘mom’ or temporary host…she must do community service for 9 months…maybe work in an orphanage or soup kitchen…some sort of social work…no more free time to mull over some other evil thing to do…the corny coat hanger ads that the abortionists used to use wont go with my crowd…imagine for a moment…out of that 50 million murdered babies…how many great doctors,scientists,artists.etc were snuffed out for good…why there probably was a genius who would have discovered a cure for hiv etc…cancer,diabetes,etc…maybe a political scientist who would have cured the world of war…or warts…in the next world we will know of those murdered by the left in this country…
 
At the risk of making heads explode, abortion is not always murder under Catholic teaching.

It is always a “grave moral disorder”, but it isn’t always murder. Past the point of ensoulment, it is murder. Prior to that, it is “anticipated murder”. We’ve had different traditions on when that point is (historically 80-116 days), but our current position is that we do not know.

However, it remains an important theological point. We reject traducianism and generationalism as heresy. So we should be careful in stating Evangelical Protestant beliefs as our own.

On the question at hand, we treat procuring and providing a direct abortion equally in Canon law. Arguing that one party knows what is doing and the other does not relegates the latter to a lesser status of responsibility in the eyes of God.

In reality, it does not matter if a mother’s fear is fed upon by an opportunist or if a health worker is manipulated by tears and threats of suicide from a would be abortion seeker, ultimately both have to accept or reject the individual burden of their Christian obligations.

That said, I seriously doubt that we will be holding abortion procurrers to a secular standard of murder any time soon. First, we do not really have gender equality. Women are still perceived as being less self determinent and responsible than men (I think this is silly, but it exists). Second, some abortion procurrers are going to have truthful tales of horrific stress and external pressures. At some level I think many of us feel some Christian responsibility for some of the the societal factors and lack of easy alternatives, so we transfer more responsibility on to the provider.
 
If abortion is murder, should those responsible be tried for murder? And if found guilty, should they be imprisoned like other murderers?
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I don’t see why not. Murder is murder.

~Liza
 
vern_humphrey said:
That’s called an affirmative defense – in essense the defendant admits the act, but claims justification, mental incapacity, and so on. An affirmative defense shifts the burden of proof to the defendant.
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That would seem to make sense too, since they would be pleading guilty, but by reason of insanity. It would be up to the defense to prove insanity.
 
st_lucy said:
But the mother and so on (in most cases) are being fooled to think that their child is not a child but a blob. The mother is already confussed and scared and the abortionist lies to her about what her real choices are.
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It is not so much in most cases that the mother is really being fooled, but rather that she is being told something that she wants to believe.
 
SoCalRC said:
At the risk of making heads explode, abortion is not always murder under Catholic teaching.
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Please provide evidence of any instance where the Catholic Church teaches that direct abortion is ever anything, but murder.
 
I’m completely against imprisonment of any of them, they truly believe it’s not murder. They need prayer, not prison.
 
Teen4Christ said:
I’m completely against imprisonment of any of them, they truly believe it’s not murder. They need prayer, not prison.
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Prisons are filled with vicious criminals who believe they had a right to do what they did. That is, after all, the definition of a sociopath – that he does not accept guilt for his crime.
 
st_lucy said:
I personally feel that the abortionist should be held in a higher degree of guilt. They know what they are doing, they see the tiny hands and feet that they just pulled apart. They know that they just tore apart a person. But the mother and so on (in most cases) are being fooled to think that their child is not a child but a blob. The mother is already confussed and scared and the abortionist lies to her about what her real choices are.

I don’t advocate the death penalty for anyone, but I do think that abortionist should serve their time for murder.
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👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍
 
mapleoak said:
It is not so much in most cases that the mother is really being fooled, but rather that she is being told something that she wants to believe.
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Also often times true; yet the abortionist IMHO carries much greater guilt in most cases!
 
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