If abortion was illegal

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Everyone barks at the poor woman.
Consider that no woman who is adequately loved and supported by the men in her life ever has an abortion.
This thread advocates the punishment of the first victim without acknowledging that there are other malfactors who ought to be brought to account for their contribution to the situation.

Matthew
 
drafdog said:
Everyone barks at the poor woman.
Consider that no woman who is adequately loved and supported by the men in her life ever has an abortion.
This thread advocates the punishment of the first victim without acknowledging that there are other malfactors who ought to be brought to account for their contribution to the situation.

Matthew
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Thank you for that, Matthew. The sheer condemnation of women is quite stunning to me. I have tried to speak to pickets about alternatives, and so many times…men, elderly men have shouted me down without so much as a willingness to listen. This strikes me as pure zealotry and does nothing to further the cause. It’s a shame, really, because we are all essentially pursuing the same goal. :gopray: :console:
 
drafdog said:
Consider that no woman who is adequately loved and supported by the men in her life ever has an abortion.
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This bears repeating.

Now, back to the original topic.

I was around on Jan 24th, 1973. And I do NOT recall that on that day thousands of women were released from prisons for abortion convictions, as a result of Roe v Wade decided on 1-23-73.

That’s because none of those women were in jail.

Abortionists were punished for doing abortions. Not women.

Even now, few physicians are willing to do abortions.
Having been trained to save lives, why would they want to take them?

Abortion laws are directed at regulating the behavior of abortionists.
 
drafdog said:
Everyone barks at the poor woman.
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I only bark at the guilty woman, women of all classes, races, and the like. Women who knew better, but still chose to do evil in the simplest sense.
drafdog said:
Consider that no woman who is adequately loved and supported by the men in her life ever has an abortion.
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That’s not necessaraly true. Women who were adequately loved and supported can still have had an abortion, out of ignorance, desparation, embarassment, fear, etc, despite the nice background they were raised in.
drafdog said:
This thread advocates the punishment of the first victim without acknowledging that there are other malfactors who ought to be brought to account for their contribution to the situation.

Matthew
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Punishment for the victim??? We’re talking about women themselves who are guilty! Go back to the start of this thread and read carefully when punishment is to be administered to the women involved in the abortion. We already know of the factors involved, drafdog.

My heart goes out to the women too, probably most are victims of pressure and ignorance (heck many women felt they had no choice, which is ironic) and they need our love and support.

But everyone do keep in mind, please, that there are some women who know better, and who chose deliberately to kill their child. They are the ones who desirve punishment, as justice demands.
 
No one “barks at the woman.” We bark at the killers.

That includes the woman who willfully has an abortion, the man who drove her to the clinic, the parents who pressured her (if she was pressured and did not have an abortion willfully) and the serial killer who performed the murder.
 
vern_humphrey said:
No one “barks at the woman.” We bark at the killers.

That includes the woman who willfully has an abortion, the man who drove her to the clinic, the parents who pressured her (if she was pressured and did not have an abortion willfully) and the serial killer who performed the murder.
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Thank you, I also ment the other people involved in the abortion, and not just the woman.
 
One thing that seems to be important to this debate is the status of the woman who has an abortion. Is she a victim, or a killer?
 
valient_Lucy said:
One thing that seems to be important to this debate is the status of the woman who has an abortion. Is she a victim, or a killer?
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Like at the start of the thread, it depends if her involvement was willful or involentary. She could be a victim herself, being forced into the abortion, or the criminal herself, having willfully subjected her innocent baby to death.

So if abortion were illegal, and the women willfully choosed to have an abortion, then it is to the gallows like every other criminal. (I know that’s a harsh way to describe it, but in effect she’s as guilty as any other law breaker)
 
valient_Lucy said:
…how should the woman who has the abortion be punished?
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Just the woman? more than that my friend!! The abortionist is the one who did the killing. He faces life imprisonment. The woman, if she acted alone and no one knew, should be tried as an accompliss (sp?). The biological father, if he knew she was pregnant and ended it and did nothing to stop her should face criminal charges. As well as anyone else who knew about this crime to be committed and either advised her to do it, helped her get the money, or knew it was going to happen and didn’t get her help should all face serious repercussions. It’s like knowing a child is to be shot in the head, and doing nothing about it.
 
Delphinus85 said:
Just the woman? more than that my friend!! The abortionist is the one who did the killing. He faces life imprisonment. The woman, if she acted alone and no one knew, should be tried as an accompliss (sp?). The biological father, if he knew she was pregnant and ended it and did nothing to stop her should face criminal charges. As well as anyone else who knew about this crime to be committed and either advised her to do it, helped her get the money, or knew it was going to happen and didn’t get her help should all face serious repercussions. It’s like knowing a child is to be shot in the head, and doing nothing about it.
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Everyone involved should be treated like a gang of robbers who killed their victim – from the triggerman to the driver of the getaway car.

Matters in extenuation may be raised by the defense, and the jury may choose to find some less guilty than others, but all should face the same charges.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Everyone involved should be treated like a gang of robbers who killed their victim – from the triggerman to the driver of the getaway car.

Matters in extenuation may be raised by the defense, and the jury may choose to find some less guilty than others, but all should face the same charges.
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Exactly! I’m sorry I just get so mad about this topic!! It’s so unfair and the greatest case of injustice and highest disrespect to humanity I have EVER heard of! I’ve actually lost my patriotism over this issue. It makes me sick. I recently saw some protesters holding signs with coathangers on them with a sign saying “we won’t go back!” and I wanted to get out and scream at them. Basically they are saying that they were going to muder children whether it was legal or not, and didn’t care how they did it. It’s like serial killers whining about people defending themselves so they want guns outlawed and knives taken away from innocent people so they can kill them without getting hurt. It just makes me so mad I could SCREAM. Not to mention these women who are holding these signs make all other normal women SICK. :banghead:

Not to mention all the men who say “it’s her body she ban make the decision” are making the ultimate cop out! He is claiming he has nothing to do with the pregnancy, and it’s this attitude that makes women feel al one too. A pregnancy is NEVER just about the woman!! (sorry to go off topic, I just got so UPSET!):mad:
 
Delphinus85 said:
Exactly! I’m sorry I just get so mad about this topic!! It’s so unfair and the greatest case of injustice and highest disrespect to humanity I have EVER heard of! I’ve actually lost my patriotism over this issue. It makes me sick. I recently saw some protesters holding signs with coathangers on them with a sign saying “we won’t go back!” and I wanted to get out and scream at them. Basically they are saying that they were going to muder children whether it was legal or not, and didn’t care how they did it. It’s like serial killers whining about people defending themselves so they want guns outlawed and knives taken away from innocent people so they can kill them without getting hurt. It just makes me so mad I could SCREAM. Not to mention these women who are holding these signs make all other normal women SICK. :banghead:

Not to mention all the men who say “it’s her body she ban make the decision” are making the ultimate cop out! He is claiming he has nothing to do with the pregnancy, and it’s this attitude that makes women feel al one too. A pregnancy is NEVER just about the woman!! (sorry to go off topic, I just got so UPSET!):mad:
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Rather than concentrate on emotion, let us meditate and pray – and commit ourselves to ending this horrible crime. If we cannot do it all at once, let us do it incrementally. If we cannot end it 100% let us never stop working to reduce the rate of child murder.
 
estesbob said:
Depends on the circumstances.
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Indeed it does. Some women, especially underage girls, are forced (with varying methods and degrees of coersion.) Others have them willfully – I mentioned an account in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette about how women from wesetern Tennessee are “forced” to come to Little Rock to get abortions – one of them for the third time!!
 
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