If Abraham was so great, why was he constantly prostituting his wife?

[Nan_S]

I have every right to question it. What Lot was said to have done is completely inexcusable. As LaSainte brilliantly noted, Lot did not offer himself for sacrifice. If he felt so strongly about stopping the sin the mob was to commit, surely place the burden on himself and show even a modicum fof love and compassion for his daughters. The character of Lot is irredeemable.

Mike, you say you tried to understand scripture in context and still don’t understand. You’re not trying very seriously, even when the context right there for all to see.

Lot DID expose himself to the mob, alone and unarmed. Lot put himself in harm’s way and had to be rescued from the mob. LaSainte seems to be just as ignorant of scripture and history as you. Have you ever read what is written immediately before and after the quote by Lot which you seem to be so proud of repeating:

4 Before they went to bed, all the townsmen of Sodom, both young and old - all the people to the last man - closed in on the house.
5 They called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intimacies with them.”
6 **Lot went out to meet them at the entrance. When he had shut the door behind him, **
7 he said, “I beg you, my brothers, not to do this wicked thing.
8 I have two daughters who have never had intercourse with men. Let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you please. But don’t do anything to these men, for you know they have come under the shelter of my roof.”
9 They replied, “Stand back! This fellow,” they sneered, “came here as an immigrant, and now he dares to give orders! We’ll treat you worse than them!” **With that, they pressed hard against Lot, moving in closer to break down the door. **
10 **But his guests put out their hands, pulled Lot inside with them, and closed the door; **

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Consider that Lot knew something of the evil dispositions of the city and what would or would not work to dissuade the mob. Perhaps Lot himself was not an “attractive” option. He likely knew it so he dismissed it as an option.

You’re making a great many assumptions. Not only is he so incredibly sure what the mob would do and would not do that he wouldn’t even attempt any of the options I mentioned above. You’re assuming that his best option was to have the mob defile his daughters but it was his only option.

It is not the insanity or mind of Lot that needs to be considered. What you are not taking into account at all is the mob. What they were capable of and what their intention was are two of the key considerations, yet you are saddling Lot with responsibility for the entire event, which is ludicrous. It is as if you believe the mob was a morally neutral “event” and not individuals making a choice.

Where exactly did I put the entire onus on Lot and discount how vile the actions of the mob were? If this story were actually true, then having a mob of rapists burn in a fire was too good for them.

Praying to God is a suggestion that misses the point as well. Lot knew God had passed judgement and declared the city an abomination.

That makes no sense. It wouldn’t be worth it to pray if there was no way whatsoever that God would intervene – which He did. Not only that but Lot just has to look at his uncle, Abraham, to see that it’s possible to bargain with God. Even if he thought the chance of success with minimal, he should have attempted well before The Great Rape Swap of Sodom.

Lot was giving the mob a kind of last option that perhaps a shred of human decency would win out over their abominable practices. That they would see how heinous they had become and that they had reduced the situation to a choice between two abominable alternatives. This was a choice Lot had left to the individuals that comprised the mob before their final judgement.

Again, you’re making further assumptions regarding actions that a rational, holy, loving person simply would not do. As I mentioned above, this is a completely false dichotomy.

Again your suggestion is problematic concerning Lot offering himself. An important detail in the story is that there was something ethereally beautiful about the two visitors, This is very clear from the fact that there was a mob to begin with that sought after them. Are you claiming this was a common practice? That mobs formed whenever any visitors come into the city? If Lot was a viable option, then why wasn’t he accosted in the same manner when he made his first entrance into the city? He wasn’t, so clearly offering himself would have meant nothing.

Were the daughters ethereally beautiful? Were they an acceptable replacement for angels? Let’s say that Lot thought the chances of the mob accepting an offer of himself was 0.0000001%. Wouldn’t a person who had even the slightest sliver of goodness offer himself instead of his daughters? I would do everything possible to keep my relatives from being raped no matter how slim the possibility of success.

As to your point concerning doing evil as a means to an end, that is only true if Lot were the one doing the evil, he wasn’t, the individuals making up mob were. His situation was more like promoting the lesser of two evil possibilities when those were the only two live options.

Are you suggesting that an absolute maximum of one party (in this case the mob) can commit evil in any situation? Let’s say a person is on the subway and is being mugged. The mugger gets agitated and is about to shoot him. Quick-thinking but amoral, he picks up a nearby toddler and uses as a human shield. Both the mugger and muggee are evil in that situation. Lot acted evilly, not to discount the evil of the mob in any way.

 

[meltzerboy]

Every single time they show up in a new city, he’s all “Tell them you’re my sister and go sleep with the king!” What the heck is up with that? Why is he portrayed as this great guy who went to Heaven? From the way the Bible describes it, the only good thing he did was being willing to kill Isaac, but in retrospect, it’s quite possible he did it to save his own skin out of fear of God. After all, he was constantly telling his wife to sleep with random people to save his own life. Am I missing something here?

Don’t forget that it was Sarah who encouraged Abraham to take a second wife, Hagar, to bear him a son. Different customs at that time.

A funny answer to your question, which I find humorous in its wording: although Abraham was great, maybe his wife was not so great! But of course Sarah was great and had what is known in the Talmud as “binah,” or the ability to interpret the hidden meaning of a situation or entity rather than rely on its superficial meaning. Judaism believes that women are endowed with this capacity more than men.

 

[Ismael]

This might provide some insight:

johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/10/why-is-lot-called-righteous-if-he.html?m=1

Makes more sense than trying to justify Lot’s actions, which were clearly wrong.

I think you are forgetting that they lived in a very different time and colture.

For example for the ancient killling the unborn like we do now, or ‘using contracception’ would have been seen as something unbelievebly horrible, since children were everything and a man greatness was often measured in his posterity.

And indeed as** meltzerboy **says

Don’t forget that it was Sarah who encouraged Abraham to take a second wife, Hagar, to bear him a son. Different customs at that time.

For the ancients or no doubt the Jews… kids were everything, the final reward.

These days many people think abortion and contraception are ‘human rights’, a behaviour unbtikable back then.

Today people called heroes because they hand out condoms would have been thought extremely wicked back then.

 

[juliamajor]

Don’t forget that it was Sarah who encouraged Abraham to take a second wife, Hagar, to bear him a son. Different customs at that time.

A funny answer to your question, which I find humorous in its wording: although Abraham was great, maybe his wife was not so great! But of course Sarah was great and had what is known in the Talmud as “binah,” or the ability to interpret the hidden meaning of a situation or entity rather than rely on its superficial meaning. Judaism believes that women are endowed with this capacity more than men.

Doesn’t Rebekah show that same insight when she helps Jacob to confound Esau?. While the twins were struggling in her womb God told her (no one else) what was going to happen to Jacob and Esau. She was in on God’s plan, and with her insight helped the plan along.

 

[Classicist]

Every single time they show up in a new city, he’s all “Tell them you’re my sister and go sleep with the king!” What the heck is up with that? Why is he portrayed as this great guy who went to Heaven? From the way the Bible describes it, the only good thing he did was being willing to kill Isaac, but in retrospect, it’s quite possible he did it to save his own skin out of fear of God. After all, he was constantly telling his wife to sleep with random people to save his own life. Am I missing something here?

Abraham was a sinner. We are all sinners. He is great because of his faith, in those simplistic & early days before the Law. We emulate his faith. That is all.