If aids came out before condoms, I can almost guarantee the church's stance on birth control would be different

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When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
 
Why do you think there aren’t other negative health consequences of anal receptive sex that existed before AIDS/HIV?

Gay Bowel Syndrome
- (a modern term in use 1976-2005, to refer to a complex of conditions–term abandoned for political and not medical reasons): The clinical diagnoses in decreasing order of frequency include condyloma acuminata, hemorrhoids, nonspecific proctitis, anal fistula, perirectal abscess, anal fissure, amebiasis, benign polyps, viral hepatitis, gonorrhea, syphilis, anorectal trauma and foreign bodies, shigellosis, rectal ulcers and lymphogranuloma venereum

Romans 1:27
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
The Church’s teaching on birth control follows naturally and organically from its entire moral theological tradition, which is actually pre-Christian in origin. I suspect you don’t know this because you don’t actually know anything about the Church’s moral theological tradition, like most people who complain about it.

The Church tells Africans (and everyone else) to live in chastity. Chastity means not having sex with anyone but your wife. Now if Africans won’t listen to them about chastity what in the world makes you think they’re listening to them about contraception?
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
AIDS in Africa: Abstinence Works

BALTIMORE, Maryland, FEB. 27, 2008 (Zenit.org).- In the fight against AIDS, abstinence-based programs that focus on changing behaviors rather than handing out condoms simply work better, says an AIDS expert.
Matthew Hanley has been a HIV/AIDS technical adviser at Catholic Relief Services (CRS) for the last seven years and is the author of the forthcoming book “Avoiding Risk, Affirming Life: Science, Love, and AIDS.”
In this interview with ZENIT, Hanley comments on the programs and principles that have led to dropping rates of HIV prevalence in Africa.

more…
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
What exactly is your guarantee worth? Contrary to your moniker you appear to be on these forums merely to raise the hackles of others by the kinds of questions you ask. If you really were “interested,” you would have taken the time to research the issues before making the statements you do.

Many of the early church fathers addressed this issue and universally condemned contraception. St. Hippolytus of Rome specifically commented on the inherent wrong in taking drugs to thwart conception. Birth control drugs and abortion techniques were known and used in ancient Rome.

“[Christian women with male concubines], on account of their prominent ancestry and great property, the so-called faithful want no children from slaves or lowborn commoners, [so] they use drugs of sterility or bind themselves tightly in order to expel a fetus which has already been engendered” (Refutation of All Heresies*9:12 [A.D.225]).

See: staycatholic.com/humanae_vitae.htm

catholic.com/magazine/articles/contraception’s-dark-fruits

catholic.com/tracts/contraception-and-sterilization

catholic.com/radio/shows/the-birth-control-pill-blessing-or-curse-4782

In fact, abstinence is showing itself to be more effective in Africa than contraceptive drugs, because these only raise promiscuity levels and result in increased numbers of abortions performed.

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0074.html

There is also evidence that the entire AIDS situation in Africa is manufactured by how aids symptoms are assessed there. Multinational drug companies have a huge interest in promoting contraceptive use and AIDs medications.
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
**Your post makes no sense to me since it has no basis within the teachings of our Catholic faith. How do you know the Church’s stance on BC would be different? Show me where you found the information you have based your conclusion on.

For 1000’s of years before the aids epidemic there were other equally horrific sexually transmitted diseases.**
 
Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help.
The Church does not preach that condoms are evil. Condoms are morally neutral. What the Church teaches is that contraception is immoral.

Nor does the Church preach abstinence, although it does teach that sex outside of marriage (fornication) is immoral. If a person is not married, s/he should not be having sex with anyone else. In that sense, the Catholic Church teaches abstinence. However, if a person is married, that person should only be having sex with their spouse. The Church does not forbid a married couple from having sex, even if one of them is HIV positive.
If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
You have offered no evidence, nor any reasoned argument, in support of that position.
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
Didn’t you know that people have been dying from sexually transmitted diseases since man discovered sheep? Both condoms and AIDS have precursers and they both predate Christ. The teachings of the Church are based in Truth which doesn’t change due to circumstances.
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
The Church’s stance on birth control is not based on political or social convenience but on a set of moral beliefs that involve the definition of life and what it perceives to be G-d’s intentions in this regard. (Orthodox) Judaism also has a set of moral beliefs, including a ban on condoms, which likewise does not shift according to current happenings in the world, although Judaism’s view on contraception differs somewhat from that of the Church.
 
There are many reasons why sub-Sahara Africa has such a problem with aids, but the Catholc Church’s position on condoms is not one of them. Please do some research before you post comments like you have today.
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
:rotfl::dts::rotfl:

Another example of insular thinking…

Question -
Do you really - - I mean REALLLLY believe that the Church’s stance on condom use matters in the least to people who are breaking the Church’s - stance on fornication - whether heterosexual or homosexual???

People who live by the guidelines of the Church, live chaste lives, reserve sex for a singular, committed (read married) relationship are virtually immune from getting HIV - or pretty much any STD.

People who DO NOT live by the guidelines of the Church in regards to chastity are highly unlikely to worry about the Church’s teachings on the use of condoms.

To think otherwise is - - well - - not thinking at all…🤷

Peace
James
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: You don’t know anything about the Catholic Church, do you?
 
Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help.
There is another take on the AIDS epidemic in Africa. It is all about diagnosis and the history of actually identifying the “cause” and therefore the treatment for AIDS.

Here is some more reading for you, that is if you are truly “interested.”

*In the US, AIDS is defined as a collection of 29 previously-known conditions including yeast infections, hepatitis, the flu, pneumonia, tuberculosis and Kaposi’s Sarcoma. These conditions are not known to be caused by HIV. Nevertheless, the one thing that classifies any one of these conditions as AIDS is a positive HIV-antibody test.

But even if HIV was found to cause these previously known conditions, a problem remains. The HIV-antibody tests do not diagnose actual HIV-infection. Instead, they look for non-specific antibody reactions in your blood to proteins in the HIV-test. The test manufacturers claim that the proteins stand in for HIV, but in reality, none of the test proteins have been proven to be specific to HIV. These tests are, in fact, so nonspecific that they cross-react with nearly 70 other documented conditions, including the flu, previous vaccinations, blood transfusions, arthritis, alcoholic hepatitis, drug use, yeast infections and even pregnancy, as well as conditions endemic in Africa: tuberculosis, parasitic infection, leprosy and malaria. Because no HIV test can actually find HIV, not a single HIV-test has been approved by the FDA for diagnosing HIV-infection.

In light of this nonspecific, cross-reacting test, how does the World Health Organization (WHO) diagnose AIDS in Africa?

Simple: they don’t require any test at all. In 1985, the WHO created a new definition of AIDS for African nations and third world countries. The WHO’s “Bangui Definition” allows Africans with common physical symptoms including diarrhea, fever, weight loss, itching and coughing to be automatically designated as AIDS patients, with no HIV test. But these very symptoms define life for the majority of Africans who lack essentials like sufficient food, safe drinking water, proper sanitation and basic medical care. These symptoms are also synonymous with the biggest killers on the continent: malaria, infectious diarrhea and tuberculosis.

Western AIDS organizations are working to get toxic AIDS drugs into the hands of African governments, but what’s the use of potentially deadly AIDS pharmaceuticals to people suffering from poverty-related diseases like chronic tuberculosis and malaria infection, or to pregnant mothers whose blood cross-reacts with the nonspecific HIV tests?

…What’s the main AIDS organization in Uganda?

Fiala: TASO - The AIDS Support Organisation. They claim to be independent, but they’re heavily funded by the pharmaceutical industry. They’re currently constructing buildings to prepare the ground for massive HIV testing, with this non-specific, cross-reacting test, and to distribute toxic AIDS drugs.

In Africa, 50 percent of the population has no access to clean drinking water and the vast majority lack even basic medical care. And the response from multimillion dollar AIDS organization is to promote HIV testing, give out condoms and to implement treatment with deadly AIDS drugs. These drugs are similar or identical to chemotherapy drugs used in cancer treatment. They work by stopping cell growth. They kill your body from the inside out.
The above excerpt is taken from this article::
altheal.org/texts/liamscheff.htm

The entire article is an excellent read that gives the “other side” of the story. One not dependent upon multinational funding or politics.

What is also very interesting is how scientists, even very reputable, highly knowledgeable experts in the field can very quickly be ostracized and belittled when they do not tow the party line - the one funded by multinational corporations which have huge opportunity for profit.

Science, these days, is not about finding the truth, it is about profit.

The following is an interesting article about Dr. Peter Duesberg, who was interviewed in the above article. He certainly is no “respecter of persons” but he is also not afraid to tell the truth even when faced with repercussions from the science establishment.

discovermagazine.com/2008/jun/15-aids-dissident-seeks-redemption-and-a-cure-for-cancer/article_view?b_start:int=0&-C=
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
And I can guarantee that you are wrong.
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
This is just a massively huge unprovable, unsubstantiated claim. It’s barely worth responding to.
 
The Church’s teaching against birth control goes back to pre-Christian times in Biblical tradition such as the sin of Onan. It is held definitively in Sacred Scripture as well as Sacred Tradition. Altering it is not a possibility as long as the Holy Spirit continues to guide and protect His Church.

There is, however, one area where I think you might be on to something. If aids had been around sooner, it would have forced the Church to better articulate her teachings on Chastity, Contraception, Marriage, etc. Instead of the lack of understanding of God’s will in such areas that we saw develop out of the 1960’s and continue until very recently, we might have seen greater understanding in these areas among Catholics, and the population at large.
 
:rotfl::dts::rotfl:

Another example of insular thinking…

Question -
Do you really - - I mean REALLLLY believe that the Church’s stance on condom use matters in the least to people who are breaking the Church’s - stance on fornication - whether heterosexual or homosexual???

People who live by the guidelines of the Church, live chaste lives, reserve sex for a singular, committed (read married) relationship are virtually immune from getting HIV - or pretty much any STD.

People who DO NOT live by the guidelines of the Church in regards to chastity are highly unlikely to worry about the Church’s teachings on the use of condoms.

To think otherwise is - - well - - not thinking at all…🤷

Peace
James
I completely disagree with the OP, but be careful about making such crude statements. No small number of those destitute Africans who are dying live almost tribal lives and have never heard the Gospel. If you want to change that, get yourself over there and evangelize, but show some compassion in the meantime. The Church does not condemn these human beings to hell for being outside the Church because of their ignorance. Condoms are not the answer but if no one spreads the Gospel and evangelizes, then its difficult to see you rolling around in laughter at the misfortune of these people as anything but abhorrent. Please think charitably and realize that these people are not out living the party life and out fornicating afterwards for recreation…

J.M.J.
 
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