If aids came out before condoms, I can almost guarantee the church's stance on birth control would be different

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I completely disagree with the OP, but be careful about making such crude statements. No small number of those destitute Africans who are dying live almost tribal lives and have never heard the Gospel. If you want to change that, get yourself over there and evangelize, but show some compassion in the meantime. The Church does not condemn these human beings to hell for being outside the Church because of their ignorance. Condoms are not the answer but if no one spreads the Gospel and evangelizes, then its difficult to see you rolling around in laughter at the misfortune of these people as anything but abhorrent. Please think charitably and realize that these people are not out living the party life and out fornicating afterwards for recreation…

J.M.J.
That’s silly. He wasn’t laughing because of the plight of impoverished Africans. He was laughing because the OP’s argument is, well, laughable. Regardless of whether or not Africans know they are spreading diseases by extra-marital sex, Americans do know about AIDS and the Church’s teaching on sexuality, and they still make excuses.
 
I’m not that familiar with the stats on condoms, I’m thinking the last I read was that they were 75% effective in preventing pregnancy.

With a percentage of failure like that, do you really want to hand a condom to our young people when aids is involved?? Really?
They deserve better than that.

Don’t treat our young people like they are lemmings going over a cliff. They need to make good decisions and be guided by those who look out for what’s best for them. That’s a terrible risk to take, using a condom. It’s unacceptable. It’s totally avoidable. There is no cure. It’s playing Russian roulette with their lives.
 
That’s silly. He wasn’t laughing because of the plight of impoverished Africans. He was laughing because the OP’s argument is, well, laughable. Regardless of whether or not Africans know they are spreading diseases by extra-marital sex, Americans do know about AIDS and the Church’s teaching on sexuality, and they still make excuses.
👍
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
Absolute nonsense! You obviously know very little about the Catholic Church’s belief and teaching on contraception and even less about AIDS!
I am not going to argue with you on this subject because I think you are just being a provacatuer.
For the most part, Aids is transmitted by sexual practices that are not morally acceptable to the Church. Very little of it is the result from normal intercourse. And yes, these abnormal sexual practices are quite common between hetrosexual couples in the Western World as well as the Third World. Many in the Third World use these practices as a form of birth control.
 
CaptFun responds in RED and BLUE
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. - Birth control is not an intrinsic evil,some methods are allowed including NFP and (temporary for married couples) abstinence (100 % effective). ARTIFICIAL birth control is the distinction you mean.

You changed the subject within the sentence to AIDS (from artificial birth control - ABC).

Regarding the latter, ABC, the Church speaks to even married heterosexual couples who are living a sacrament and are not sinning by having intercourse with one another. Even then it is a sin to use them. Intercourse between non-married people, a married person and not-their-spouse and vice-versa; and any combination of sexual anomalies further out than that are sinful (mortal sinful as per gravity of the sin) of themselves with or without ABCs.

AIDS could inflict an innocent party or a person in a sacramental marriage. Even in that rare case don’t look for the Church to go issuing a condom dispensation. An infected person having intercourse with a non-infected partner – and rationalizing that wearing a condom is “safe sex” – is deluded. Condoms fail one time in five due to people using them wrong, other defects, the infinitesimally small size of some organisms, etc.

So within a month of regular sex, the uninfected partner may be a new victim.

Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. AIDS might have been around before, but in the '80s it became a sensational disease - and due to a high percentage of homosexual males that got it (and the disease might possibly have originated from related practice of same) it was considered a “gay” disease - although others got it through blood transfusions and other biological contact with infected people.

The Church does love everyone and has hospitals to help people, and does teach moral and licit lessons concerning health and disease prevention. It would never and will never sanction condoms as “safe homosexual sex” even between non-infected partners because the intrinsic evil IS the homosexual sex. Same goes for condoms and heterosexual sex.

Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. Abstinence would be 100% effective in disease control and in line with Church teaching. It WOULD help if followed - especially where the sexual acts were sinful ones. Condoms, being inanimate objects, are not evil - but the idea that using them makes sinful sex good, is.

Probably you’re thinking " … people will do this anyway … and I don’t want them to die … and condoms might make things a little bit safer than using nothing at all even if they are risky…" and conclude "so charitably the Church should allow them, promote them, give them away ‘’ something more MODERN and SENSIBLE! But the Church is to keep her children from going to hell, and to teach God’s holy ways regarding sex.

If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
No. Not on birth control (which doesn’t apply to homosexual sex anyway) nor regarding AIDS prevention as it would seem to sanction sinful and dangerous sex which it should warn its children against.

You may have been taught by some very liberal teachers to date. Some of these liberal folks can get so extreme that they hardly believe there IS such a thing as sin (or hell or moral teachings on sex). YES the Church loves AIDS victims, wants health education to go forth, and ALL people to behave unsinfully regarding the holy gift of sex - which actually DOES involve abstinence ***(even from legit married couples from day to day!).

Your “almost guarantee” might apply to some false Catholic teachers under color of authority - but not the official Church, which must shepherd souls to heaven.

In college or some social circles condoms have somehow been granted the status of being like a “badge for the loving person who really cares.” You may have been attacked by those who blame the CHURCH (of all people) for the rampant disease outbreaks caused partly or possibly by people who didn’t listen to or live by her counsel in the first place.

One can break the first commandment by worshipping the “Sex” God. It’s maybe the most popular " … false gods before (the REAL Lord)" going today.

The happy news is - the Church of Jesus is better to put one’s faith in than a condom.

:)😃
 
This is just a massively huge unprovable, unsubstantiated claim. It’s barely worth responding to.
Ooh! You were so much more quickly to the point than I was. :tiphat:

I responded at great length. Maybe I should have heeded this counsel. 😉

Oh well. Brevity and thoroughness could be just a dual witness from different parts of the body. That’s my rationalization and I’m stickin’ with it! Lol.
 
That’s silly. He wasn’t laughing because of the plight of impoverished Africans. He was laughing because the OP’s argument is, well, laughable. Regardless of whether or not Africans know they are spreading diseases by extra-marital sex, Americans do know about AIDS and the Church’s teaching on sexuality, and they still make excuses.
Thanks for the support…
I completely disagree with the OP, but be careful about making such crude statements. No small number of those destitute Africans who are dying live almost tribal lives and have never heard the Gospel. If you want to change that, get yourself over there and evangelize, but show some compassion in the meantime. The Church does not condemn these human beings to hell for being outside the Church because of their ignorance. Condoms are not the answer but if no one spreads the Gospel and evangelizes, then its difficult to see you rolling around in laughter at the misfortune of these people as anything but abhorrent. Please think charitably and realize that these people are not out living the party life and out fornicating afterwards for recreation…

J.M.J.
I reviewed my post and really did not see any “crude” statement. I condemned no one - and especially no one who is ignorant of the Gospel…

Peace
James
 
Ooh! You were so much more quickly to the point than I was. :tiphat:

I responded at great length. Maybe I should have heeded this counsel. 😉

Oh well. Brevity and thoroughness could be just a dual witness from different parts of the body. That’s my rationalization and I’m stickin’ with it! Lol.
But it was colorful! 😃
 
Ooh! You were so much more quickly to the point than I was. :tiphat:

I responded at great length. Maybe I should have heeded this counsel. 😉

Oh well. Brevity and thoroughness could be just a dual witness from different parts of the body. That’s my rationalization and I’m stickin’ with it! Lol.
As long as we agree for the same basic reasons. 😃
 
LOL, reminds me of the local window companies that offer lifetime guarantees on their windows, but declare bankruptcy every 2 years and re-open under a different name…😉

Get educated a bit more. Start here: catholicnewsagency.com/news/harvard_researcher_agrees_with_pope_on_condoms_in_africa/

Church teaching on human sexuality is wholistic, not truncated like secular approaches to STDs that ignore the larger issues of human behavior and decision making.

And don’t make ridiculous guarantees that you are in no position to support. It just makes you look bad.
 
Hey guys, I can almost guarantee that if atheists were present when man first created fire, an awe-inspiring event that changed the future of the entire human race, they would be theists. 😉
 
Thanks for the support…

I reviewed my post and really did not see any “crude” statement. I condemned no one - and especially no one who is ignorant of the Gospel…

Peace
James
I apologize… 😊 I misinterpreted your post. As I said - I agree the OP’s assertion just wrong and shows little or no knowledge of the Catholic Faith.

Pax.

+J.M.J.+
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
This is nonsense.

You really don’t know where the doctrinal rulings of the Church really come from, do you?

Hint: Not from polls.
 
Well it appears that “interestedman” isn’t really very interested in defending his OP nor is he interested in admitting it was ill advised…hhmmmm

Peace
James
 
Well it appears that “interestedman” isn’t really very interested in defending his OP nor is he interested in admitting it was ill advised…hhmmmm

Peace
James
Noted.
I guess the argument was well refuted.
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
Condoms have a 15% failure rate. Study tested 32 types of condoms and 29 have cancer causing chemicals. Why are they the right thing to provide in many health torn countries?

50000 women could get pregnant among 1 million women in the first year of using a condom. South Africa recalled 1.5 million condoms after complaints of them breaking. Imagine the lives that could of been put at risk

US donated 800 million condoms to the developing world in 1990, there could of been 3.2 million defective condoms within

Edward C Green, senior research at the Harvard public health and is a liberal said with the Pope Beendict’s comments on condoms.

Condoms, HIV-AIDS and Africa - The Pope Was Right
In 2003, Norman Hearst and Sanny Chen of the University of California conducted a condom effectiveness study for the United Nations’ AIDS program and found no evidence of condoms working as a primary HIV-prevention measure in Africa. UNAIDS quietly disowned the study. (The authors eventually managed to publish their findings in the quarterly Studies in Family Planning.) Since then, major articles in other peer-reviewed journals such as the Lancet, Science and BMJ have confirmed that condoms have not worked as a primary intervention in the population-wide epidemics of Africa. In a 2008 article in Science called "Reassessing HIV Prevention
" 10 AIDS experts concluded that “consistent condom use has not reached a sufficiently high level, even after many years of widespread and often aggressive promotion, to produce a measurable slowing of new infections in the generalized epidemics of Sub-Saharan Africa.”

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html

If condoms work so well in reducing or containing HIV, then Catholic dominated ares in Area should have higher rates of HIV because they preach abstinence. But that is not what the evidence shows

What Impact Does Catholic Teaching Have on AIDS in Africa?

catholicdefense.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/what-impact-does-catholic-teaching-have.html
 
When the church made their decision that birth control was intrinsically evil aids did not exist. Unfortunately by the time aids came out, the church couldn’t go back on their decision. Africa is being ravaged by the aids epidemic and preaching abstinence and condoms are evil don’t exactly help. If aids was around before condoms came out the church’s stance on birth control would be different.
While others already noted, why the Churchs teaching is not dependent upon AIDS being known, the argument is also faulty in itself. It effictively is:

If the Church had known about horrible long term diseases, which spread mainly through sexual contacts, before the wide spread availability of condoms, then Church would have decided differently.

And history proves this to be wrong, Church had known hundreds of years before use of condoms spread about syphilis and that its transmitting was linked to sexual contacts in many cases was also known. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis

So church knew about a horrible long term disease, which spread mainly through sexual contacts, before the wide spread availability of condoms, and yet Church teaching is as it is.
 
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