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GEddie
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Due to its numbers, the Church is already bound to world politics. That isn’t going to change much and wouldn’t if all the Protestants and Orthodox joined RCIA tomorrow.
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ctb95
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I can understand that. Although, the Church is heavily involved with world politics today. For example, the Holy See is an observing member of the United Nations.
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Wannano
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And how do we reconcile this with Jesus’ own teaching that “My Kingdom is not of this world”?
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GEddie
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He also said that it would not be taken out of the world.And how do we reconcile this with Jesus’ own teaching that “My Kingdom is not of this world”?
To do its job, it needs to engage with the world. Salt doesn’t do its job sitting in the shaker.
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Lenten_ashes
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The world would be a incredible place in this scenario.
But unfortunately, I think the Church might not be where it’s currently at in terms of internal reform. Even though I don’t agree with the reformers theological differences, they did, and continue to put pressure on the Church to constantly check itself and not slip into complacency or arrogance.
But unfortunately, I think the Church might not be where it’s currently at in terms of internal reform. Even though I don’t agree with the reformers theological differences, they did, and continue to put pressure on the Church to constantly check itself and not slip into complacency or arrogance.
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Tommy999
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Hi LA, thanks for the reply. I tend to see it this way also. I think Christianity would be more united, which is a good thing. However, I also think other Christian faith traditions help keep pressure on Catholicism to keep on focus and not become complacent.
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Lenten_ashes
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Hi Tommy.
Yeah, the Church has definitely had a few teeth pulled over the last thousand years, that is certain.
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Tommy999
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Yes, I imagine so. However, I find it both impressive and attractive for it to be alive and kicking for 2000 years. It must be doing something right.
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ctb95
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Great analogy!
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exnihilo
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To answer the original question I’m not sure exactly how the Church would be better if everyone were Catholic. It wouldn’t be perfect that is for sure. It would still have shameful moments. It would still have fights. Many would say it is too confining. It would still be something that is even hated by many on both the outside and the inside.
I look at it like asking the question wether how would be better your parents weren’t divorced. Life isn’t perfect for children when their parents are married. And life isn’t perfect for them when they are divorced. But life is much better when they are married. It gets much worse when they are divorced. Divorce fixes few problems and creates many new ones. The Church is the Bride of Christ and Holy Mother Church. While it may be hard to offer a sort of quantitative argument for how exactly staying together is better I just know that it is.
Within Catholicism you could consider existing variety as competition. For instance there are different spiritualities and religious orders. The different groups have a particular focus. So there is variety and even some positive competition. But why it is good and healthy is because it remains within the bounds of the one Church. It is good because it works together for the same end.
I look at it like asking the question wether how would be better your parents weren’t divorced. Life isn’t perfect for children when their parents are married. And life isn’t perfect for them when they are divorced. But life is much better when they are married. It gets much worse when they are divorced. Divorce fixes few problems and creates many new ones. The Church is the Bride of Christ and Holy Mother Church. While it may be hard to offer a sort of quantitative argument for how exactly staying together is better I just know that it is.
Competition is certainly good in business. In some ways it can be good for Christianity but in a very limited way. The Christian Faith is a revealed religion. Its core truths don’t come from philosophical debate. The Christian Faith was created to be an institution with visible leaders. Competition within the Church can be helpful but not if the competition is at odds with revelation, dogma, the essence of the visible institution or the idea of authoritative leadership.
Within Catholicism you could consider existing variety as competition. For instance there are different spiritualities and religious orders. The different groups have a particular focus. So there is variety and even some positive competition. But why it is good and healthy is because it remains within the bounds of the one Church. It is good because it works together for the same end.
I think human nature being what it is there is nothing, apart from the grace of a God, to prevent the Church from being fat, lazy and inefficient. I also think God has allowed it to become this at times. What is remarkable is that this institution that has become such always comes back. It doesn’t wither away when it becomes this. Rather it is rejuvenated.
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Tommy999
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Very thoughtful and insightful reply, exnihilo. I liked it a lot.
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Della
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In all matters secular and religious G. K. Chesterton’s thoughts are most penetrating and devastating in their insight. In answer to how the Church would be if everyone were Catholic he would answer: Chesterton: The Thrilling Romance—the Whirling Adventure—of Orthodoxy.
In every age God raises up those who correct the laxness or excesses the body of Christ is prone to fall into. Luther could have been a St. Francis of Assisi, but he chose to rebel. The other reformers the same, but they too decided they knew better than the Holy Spirit by usurping the Church’s authority. Each had something he could have contributed instead of dividing the body as they did. The sad result we see today is many of their denominations are abandoning sound doctrine and following wherever the world takes them.
Christ prayed that “they all might be one.” He never rescinded that prayer. The Church is constantly reaching out in ecumenical efforts to bring all Christians back into the one sheepfold. The recent granting of an Anglican Ordinariate is a prime example of making allowances for different spiritualties that have arisen outside the Church. We should all be one in doctrine and practice, but we can be very different in spiritualties. The Church is not a closed society in which everyone must conform in strict adherence to only one way of approaching unity with God. But she must uphold the truths that Christ gave her. In that she cannot compromise and won’t.
In every age God raises up those who correct the laxness or excesses the body of Christ is prone to fall into. Luther could have been a St. Francis of Assisi, but he chose to rebel. The other reformers the same, but they too decided they knew better than the Holy Spirit by usurping the Church’s authority. Each had something he could have contributed instead of dividing the body as they did. The sad result we see today is many of their denominations are abandoning sound doctrine and following wherever the world takes them.
Christ prayed that “they all might be one.” He never rescinded that prayer. The Church is constantly reaching out in ecumenical efforts to bring all Christians back into the one sheepfold. The recent granting of an Anglican Ordinariate is a prime example of making allowances for different spiritualties that have arisen outside the Church. We should all be one in doctrine and practice, but we can be very different in spiritualties. The Church is not a closed society in which everyone must conform in strict adherence to only one way of approaching unity with God. But she must uphold the truths that Christ gave her. In that she cannot compromise and won’t.
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GEddie
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Even if all Christians were Catholic, non-Christendom would remain.
The Church’s outreach to it would IMINWHO be vastly improved. The efforts from different faith bodies to poach members from each other would cease, and all that crossed effort could be directed instead to defending and promoting the Christian message.
But at the same time some things would be taken for granted. Would we stop to think about e.g. the mystery of Transubstantiation if there were no need to defend it?
ICXC NIKA
The Church’s outreach to it would IMINWHO be vastly improved. The efforts from different faith bodies to poach members from each other would cease, and all that crossed effort could be directed instead to defending and promoting the Christian message.
But at the same time some things would be taken for granted. Would we stop to think about e.g. the mystery of Transubstantiation if there were no need to defend it?
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Peter_J
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Yes, I suppose we could. But I’m not sure how one could answer either question. I guess that’s why I tend to focus on real people and try to resist the pull of sensational hypotheticals.
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Peter_J
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Don’t know if I’d say that exactly, but I like the fact that people are not compelled to belong to one denomination rather than another.
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TK421
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I think competition between denominations isn’t very fierce (although according to my late Nigerian priest, this is a pretty big deal in Africa, which had many different missionaries evangelize it in the 19th & 20th centuries). There’s plenty of flipping around, but I think for the most part this comes from individuals themselves choosing different denominations.
I think a wealth of Catholic spirituality & theology developed and re-emerged directly because of the Council of Trent and a response to the protestants, and it is still happening today.
There’s never really been a unified Christianity. In the early centuries you had all sorts of sects outside of the CC. The closest we would have come to a unified Body would be the time after the Roman Empire but before the East-West schism.
Again, the idea of all Christians being united under one Church sounds great, but just the idea of that assumes that human nature will be something different than what it is.
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
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The effect would be roughly the same because there would be plenty of scope for the various “shenanigans” that get badged as nominally “Catholic”. 
As it is, there’s a lot that’s Catholic about some people who insist that they are not Catholics!
As it is, there’s a lot that’s Catholic about some people who insist that they are not Catholics!
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peter26
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If all Christians suddenly became Catholic, it would only cause more divisions. Divisions over doctrine, over moral issues, over the specifics of the liturgy. Even if you take a group that has a quite a lot in common with the Catholic Church which is the Anglican Communion as an example, you would have disagreements on the nature of the Eucharist, the nature of the priesthood, the Marian dogmas, purgatory, the deutro-canonical books, the necessity of sacramental confession and of course the primacy and infallibility of the pope. You would also have a lot more people clamoring for women’s ordination. And this is a group that has a lot in common with the RC. Now let’s consider the divisions that would be caused by say an evangelical group. Sure, we’d agree on most issues of morality. But otherwise, once you get beyond the fundamentals (e.g. the contents of the Nicene Creed) we’d disagree on just about everything, including having very radically opposed views on what the liturgy should look like. Bottom line is, while there will always be individuals who convert, the idea of Christian unity is a pipe dream because it relies on everyone else conforming to what we believe. And guess what? Every other group also believes in Christian unity. And they also want everyone else to conform to what they believe.
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rcwitness
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I need to read this thread, but first I have a response to this good question.
A good Catholic strives to receive His Eucharist meal with a clean heart.
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