If an annulment is not granted

[katy]

What is the moral thing to do? Should they get a civil divorce and separate? What if there are children. The advice I usually see is to cease marital relations until the situation is regularized, but what if it can’t be?

 

[mercygate]

What is the moral thing to do? Should they get a civil divorce and separate? What if there are children. The advice I usually see is to cease marital relations until the situation is regularized, but what if it can’t be?

Huh?

Ah. You are referring to an attempt at a second marriage before one (or both) of the partners has received a decree of nullity for the first marriage?

 

[katy]

Huh?

Ah. You are referring to an attempt at a second marriage before one (or both) of the partners has received a decree of nullity for the first marriage?

Yes. That’s it.

 

[mercygate]

Yes. That’s it.

There is no prejudice to the children AT ALL.

Yes: the usual way of living through this is for a couple to forego their conjugal privileges, since all previous marriages are presumed to be valid until proven otherwise.

 

[bugz2007]

So if the first marriage cannot be nullified, are they just to live indefinitely as brother and sister while raising their children, for the children’s sake?

 

[mercygate]

So if the first marriage cannot be nullified, are they just to live indefinitely as brother and sister while raising their children, for the children’s sake?

The situation would have to be worked out on a case-by-case basis. It cannot be addressed on a forum like this.

 

[katy]

The situation would have to be worked out on a case-by-case basis. It cannot be addressed on a forum like this.

I suppose that would be true, but this has to happen in real life. What if one decided this was no way to live and decided to split up? I don’t necessarily have specific people in mind, I’m just trying to get the sense of the situation knowing that it is real to many.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I suppose that would be true, but this has to happen in real life. What if one decided this was no way to live and decided to split up? I don’t necessarily have specific people in mind, I’m just trying to get the sense of the situation knowing that it is real to many.

I don’t know why no one will answer you. If the proper Church accepted resolution to previous marriages cannot be arrived at–then there is no answer but that the two must not have marital relations. It’s a strange thing to be sure, but if you can’t get an annulment, you are essentially told tough. The church has no compassionate answer for what it considers a non sacramental marriage as far as I have ever heard. I inquired for a friend for the same reason and that is what I was told by the archdiocese of my area.

I can understand if the previous marriage or spouses were Catholic, but I do not understand why two folks who have never been catholic divorce and one wants to marry a Catholic cannot do so unless the non-Catholics jump through some legalistic hoops to get their marriage declared invalid for a new proposed spouses sake. It’s utterly silly to me at least.

My advice: ignore the entire matter, go to mass as usual, and forget about it. Nobody is likely to ask anyway. Course, that is likely to not be well received here, where sin is the major issue of the day.

 

[puzzleannie]

in this sad case each party would have to make a decision about the seriousness of their commitment to the Catholic faith and act accordingly, hopefully with good guidance from their pastor or confessor. there options, objectively, are to separate or to live together w/o marital relations, and if there are children at home the second would probably be advised. If heaven forbid the ex-spouses later died they could then convalidate the marriage.

the third option, continuing to live as man and wife in the full sense would of course separate them from the sacraments, from sanctifying grace, and from full communion with the Church until such time as they were able to rectify the situation.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t know why no one will answer you. If the proper Church accepted resolution to previous marriages cannot be arrived at–then there is no answer but that the two must not have marital relations. It’s a strange thing to be sure, but if you can’t get an annulment, you are essentially told tough. The church has no compassionate answer for what it considers a non sacramental marriage as far as I have ever heard. I inquired for a friend for the same reason and that is what I was told by the archdiocese of my area.

I can understand if the previous marriage or spouses were Catholic, but I do not understand why two folks who have never been catholic divorce and one wants to marry a Catholic cannot do so unless the non-Catholics jump through some legalistic hoops to get their marriage declared invalid for a new proposed spouses sake. It’s utterly silly to me at least.

My advice: ignore the entire matter, go to mass as usual, and forget about it. Nobody is likely to ask anyway. Course, that is likely to not be well received here, where sin is the major issue of the day.

Funny that people should come to religious authorities, or a religious forum, for guidance about sin And funny that we can recognise the validity and purpose behind human law, even if we don’t understand every jot and tittle of it, but presume that God doesn’t see those same benefits and thus chooses to set no law at all.

But hey, if you’re happy making your own false “god” in your image and likeness and pretending that whatever you feel like doing is hunky-dory with Him then knock yourself out. I wouldn’t serve a “god” who simply rubber-stamped all my own wishes and desires any more than I would respect a person who did the same.

It IS compassionate to tell a person living in a sinful state to sin no more, even if they don’t see the wrong and the harm of staying in such a situation. Just as it is compassionate to drag someone to the doctor who is suffering a serious illness and needs treatment, even if they don’t think they’re really that sick and don’t want to go.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

What is the moral thing to do? Should they get a civil divorce and separate? What if there are children. The advice I usually see is to cease marital relations until the situation is regularized, but what if it can’t be?

When two baptized people marry, they are married for life in God’s sight. (If one of them is Catholic they would also have to obey some church laws for the marriage to be valid). It isn’t sinful to get a legal divorce if it is necessary that the couple separate but they are still bound to each other in God’s sight.

The Catholic church doesn’t ‘nullify’ marriages. But it is willing to investigate (if one of the people requests it) to see if there was some impediment to the marriage at the time the couple made their vows. For instance, maybe they were under pressure to get married and didn’t freely make their promises. If there was an impediment, the church can issue a declaration of nullity, which is a judgement that a valid marriage didn’t exist from the beginning. This would mean that the people are free to marry.

Some people marry and intend to stay married but something later happens and they break up. They still aren’t free, according to the bible, to marry again.

The Catholic church just wants to prevent Catholics from entering into a sinful relationship. That is why it’s very unwise to commit oneself to enter into a second marriage until it is determined that the previous marriage was not a valid one, otherwise you may be committing adultery.

 

[puzzleannie]

is it compassion to tell someone “go ahead, continue to sin, even though you risk eternal damnation, because your feelings are more important than God’s law”? lying is never compassionate, it is cruel. Yes the Church does have a compassionate answer for people who have fallen into a condition of sin, and it is the only answer, and the answer is always the same: Christ, but it is Christ himself who sets the conditions by which we may come to him. “If you love Me you will keep My commandments.”

 

[kage_ar]

It may help to keep it clear if you change the wording. The Church/Tribunal does not “grant” annulments. They do not “annul” an marriage.

The tribunal reviews marriages to see if they were valid or null from the first moment.

The question would be asked “What would a couple do if they have entered a legal marriage and the tribunal determines that the are validly married to someone else.”

 

[katy]

The question would be asked “What would a couple do if they have entered a legal marriage and the tribunal determines that the are validly married to someone else.”

Yes, exactly. This could easily happen to one who comes back to the faith or wants to be Catholic in such a situation. IOW, they CAN’T receive a declaration of nullity, but have entered another marriage. Ideally, they would have reverted or converted first, but life is messy. Esp. if there are children.

 

[bilop]

What is the moral thing to do? Should they get a civil divorce and separate? What if there are children. The advice I usually see is to cease marital relations until the situation is regularized, but what if it can’t be?

There are two other possible remedies, depending on the type of marriage.

1. Pauline Privilege

If the original marriage (for which annulment is being sought) was between **two non-Christians **(both unbaptized) and one has since become, or is seeking to become Catholic the Bishop can invoke the Pauline privilege to dissolve the marriage.

1. Petrine Privilege

If the original marriage was between** a Christian and a non-Christian**, and either subsequently wishes to become Catholic or marry a Catholic, the marriage can be dissolved “in favor of the faith”.

This power is reserved to the Holy See.

For more info, just Goggle the terms.

God Bless

 

[kage_ar]

Yes, exactly. This could easily happen to one who comes back to the faith or wants to be Catholic in such a situation. IOW, they CAN’T receive a declaration of nullity, but have entered another marriage. Ideally, they would have reverted or converted first, but life is messy. Esp. if there are children.

Logic says that they should continue to live as brother and sister, to raise the children that they created together, and to stay close to Jesus.

 

[He_Man]

Logic says that they should continue to live as brother and sister, to raise the children that they created together, and to stay close to Jesus.

I would guess this is the case, most likely.

If two marry, divorce, and one remarries, then attempts to get an anullment, had it denied, they are left with living as brother and sister, me thinks.

“Til death do us part” was a vow.

Good information about the Pauline and Petrine privilege, thanks.