If an eastern Catholic is excommunicated

[Monica4316]

I learned that in the Church, there are automatic excommunications, for example for abortion, heresy, schism, disrespect to the Eucharist, etc…

if a person is an Eastern Catholic and they’ve done this, can their excommunication be lifted by the Latin bishop, or does it have to be an Eastern bishop? but what if their bishop is the Latin one, - such as the case with the Russian Catholic church, which has no own bishop? if the Latin bishop gave permission to any priest in his diocese to lift the excommunication, can the person go to any Roman Catholic priest for this? (even though they are Eastern Catholic)

just wondering… thank you!

 

[Just_Lurking]

I learned that in the Church, there are automatic excommunications, for example for abortion, heresy, schism, disrespect to the Eucharist, etc…

Only the Latin Rite has automatic excommunications. There are no automatic excommunications for Eastern Catholics.

 

[theistgal]

Only the Latin Rite has automatic excommunications. There are no automatic excommunications for Eastern Catholics.

Yet Eastern Christians (both EC’s and EO’s) are more likely to excommunicate themselves, as there is more of an emphasis on being properly prepared for reception of the Eucharist by prayer, fasting and penance (i.e. going to Confession).

(Not saying there isn’t that emphasis in the RC but I’m sure most will agree that hasn’t been as well observed in the past 40+ years as it used to be.)

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I learned that in the Church, there are automatic excommunications, for example for abortion, heresy, schism, disrespect to the Eucharist, etc…

if a person is an Eastern Catholic and they’ve done this, can their excommunication be lifted by the Latin bishop, or does it have to be an Eastern bishop? but what if their bishop is the Latin one, - such as the case with the Russian Catholic church, which has no own bishop? if the Latin bishop gave permission to any priest in his diocese to lift the excommunication, can the person go to any Roman Catholic priest for this? (even though they are Eastern Catholic)

just wondering… thank you!

You would need to go to the bishop who has jurisdiction over you for absolution.

From the Code of Canons of Oriental Churches
**Canon 728

1.** Absolution from the following sins is reserved to the Apostolic See: (1) direct violation of the sacramental seal; (2) absolution of an accomplice in a sin against chastity.
2. It is reserved to the eparchial bishop to absolve from the sin of procuring a completed abortion.

 

[Wesley7]

You can go to any priest you want to.

 

[Monica4316]

You would need to go to the bishop who has jurisdiction over you for absolution.

If I’m Russian Catholic, would this be the local Latin bishop? (since Russian Catholics don’t have thier own bishop and are under the local Latin bishop)

From the Code of Canons of Oriental Churches
**Canon 728

1.** Absolution from the following sins is reserved to the Apostolic See: (1) direct violation of the sacramental seal; (2) absolution of an accomplice in a sin against chastity.
2. It is reserved to the eparchial bishop to absolve from the sin of procuring a completed abortion.

what about schism/communicatio in sacris? that is what I’m talking about… in the Latin code of canon law, schism/heresy/etc is mentioned as well, not only the three listed above. Is there no excommunication for schism in the Eastern churches? If an Eastern Catholic did this, are they excommunicated based on Latin canon law?

I’m not saying I’m excommunicated… I actually don’t know and am meaning to ask my priest. I never left the Church in schism, but I did actively worship in a non Catholic church while I was doubting the Papacy, and I’m trying to figure out if this means I’m excommunicated. Because of this: vatican.va/resources/resources_norme_en.html and vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

 

[Just_Lurking]

Because of this: vatican.va/resources/resources_norme_en.html and vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

For the Latin canon law from your second link:
Can. 1365 A person guilty of prohibited participation in sacred rites (communicatio in sacris) is to be punished with a just penalty.
the corrsponding Eastern canon law (from here) is:
Canon 1440 One who violates the norms of law concerning communicatio in sacris can be punished with an appropriate penalty.

 

[Monica4316]

For the Latin canon law from your second link:
Can. 1365 A person guilty of prohibited participation in sacred rites (communicatio in sacris) is to be punished with a just penalty.
the corrsponding Eastern canon law (from here) is:
Canon 1440 One who violates the norms of law concerning communicatio in sacris can be punished with an appropriate penalty.

Do you happen to know if this refers to sharing in Communion, or can it be simply worshipping in another church, without receiving Communion? and what is the “just penalty”, is it excommunication?

 

[Just_Lurking]

Do you happen to know if this refers to sharing in Communion, or can it be simply worshipping in another church, without receiving Communion?

I can try to look this up, but I don’t know off the top of my head.

and what is the “just penalty”, is it excommunication?

The “just penalty” is whatever the bishop or the judge of the ecclesiastical court decides. Unlike the Latin canon law, there are no automatic impositions of penalties in the Eastern canon law. All penalties on Eastern Catholics must be actively imposed by the Church authorities. Typically, a “just penalty” is less severe than a minor excommunication. Some possible penalties can be (see here):
Canon 1426

1. Unless another penalty is provided in the law, according to the ancient traditions of the Eastern Churches, penalties can be imposed which require some serious work of religion or piety or charity, such as certain prayers, a pious pilgrimage, a special fast, alms, spiritual retreats.
2. Other penalties are to be imposed on one who is not disposed to accept these penalties.

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks for the reply; I guess if there is a penalty for me though it would be excommunication, since Russian Catholics don’t have their own bishop…

I found a canon from the Council of Trent that said it’s not lawful to participate in the worship of schismatics/heretics… I don’t know a lot of this seems to point to it being the case that I would be excommunicated.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Do you happen to know if this refers to sharing in Communion, or can it be simply worshipping in another church, without receiving Communion? and what is the “just penalty”, is it excommunication?

I hope this isn’t your issue about going to Orthodox Divine Liturgy, because that is not a sin, much less warrants excommunication.

 

[Monica4316]

I found a lot of information about how it’s wrong to participate in worship with schismatics…

and in Canon Law it says that there’s an excommunication for schism and a “just penalty” for communicatio in sacris… my whole question is whether communicatio in sacris refers to sharing Communion, or common worship as well - as Trent would suggest… if so, - then I’m probably excommunicated, especially because I worshipped with the Orthodox out of doubt in the Papacy. I don’t even know what to do or where to find out more about this.

I read that if we visit Orthodox liturgies, we should only observe, not actively participate.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I found a lot of information about how it’s wrong to participate in worship with schismatics…

and in Canon Law it says that there’s an excommunication for schism and a “just penalty” for communicatio in sacris… my whole question is whether communicatio in sacris refers to sharing Communion, or common worship as well - as Trent would suggest… if so, - then I’m probably excommunicated, especially because I worshipped with the Orthodox out of doubt in the Papacy. I don’t even know what to do or where to find out more about this.

I read that if we visit Orthodox liturgies, we should only observe, not actively participate.

The Orthodox aren’t schismatics. They are in schism. Schismatics are those who cause the schism. At present none of the Orthodox ever caused the schism, they are born into this reality like we Catholics are, that the Church is divided. We already agree that there is nothing in their teaching that is against Catholic teaching, and we are working towards the one important issue we need to resolve, the proper place of the Bishop of Rome in a united Church.

If participating in Orthodox Liturgies warrants excommunication, then almost all regulars in the Eastern Catholic Forum are excommunicated. Believe me, the Church does not excommunicate those who attend Orthodox Liturgies and other prayer services.

 

[Monica4316]

The Orthodox aren’t schismatics. They are in schism. Schismatics are those who cause the schism. At present none of the Orthodox ever caused the schism, they are born into this reality like we Catholics are, that the Church is divided. We already agree that there is nothing in their teaching that is against Catholic teaching, and we are working towards the one important issue we need to resolve, the proper place of the Bishop of Rome in a united Church.

If participating in Orthodox Liturgies warrants excommunication, then almost all regulars in the Eastern Catholic Forum are excommunicated. Believe me, the Church does not excommunicate those who attend Orthodox Liturgies and other prayer services.

but what would you say this means?
Can. 1365 A person guilty of prohibited participation in sacred rites (communicatio in sacris) is to be punished with a just penalty.

and from the 1917 Canon Law:
Canon 1258§1 “It is not lawful for the faithful in any way to assist actively at or to take part in the worship of non-Catholics.”

this does not say the word “schismatic”… it just refers to worship with non Catholics…

 

[malphono]

I found a lot of information about how it’s wrong to participate in worship with schismatics…

and in Canon Law it says that there’s an excommunication for schism and a “just penalty” for communicatio in sacris… my whole question is whether communicatio in sacris refers to sharing Communion, or common worship as well - as Trent would suggest… if so, - then I’m probably excommunicated, especially because I worshipped with the Orthodox out of doubt in the Papacy. I don’t even know what to do or where to find out more about this.

I read that if we visit Orthodox liturgies, we should only observe, not actively participate.

This is none of my business, but it seems to me that there’s nothing serious to worry about. I really don’t see any excommunicable offense here. It’s perfectly fine to attend an EO DL, participate in it, and even take communion (if the EO offer it). What may be a problem is if one actually and officially joined the EO, but even so, the question is asked from the “Catholic” POV, so it would seem that is not the case (and if it were so at one point, it would appear that it’s been reversed). In any event, one can always bring the matter up with a confessor just to dispel any lingering doubts.

 

[Monica4316]

I am not sure if what you list is okay, but even in the case that it is, - I worshipped with the Orthodox because I was doubting the Papacy… so it came from a rejection of Catholicism, a doubt in it… that is what makes this even more problematic.

 

[ConstantineTG]

but what would you say this means?
Can. 1365 A person guilty of prohibited participation in sacred rites (communicatio in sacris) is to be punished with a just penalty.

Well, we are not prohibited from participating in Orthodox Liturgies, so definitely it does not fall under “prohibited participation”.

and from the 1917 Canon Law:
Canon 1258§1 “It is not lawful for the faithful in any way to assist actively at or to take part in the worship of non-Catholics.”

this does not say the word “schismatic”… it just refers to worship with non Catholics…

Since we see the Orthodox as true Apostolic Churches, they are considered “Catholics”, though not in communion with Rome.

 

[malphono]

I am not sure if what you list is okay, but even in the case that it is, - I worshipped with the Orthodox because I was doubting the Papacy… so it came from a rejection of Catholicism, a doubt in it… that is what makes this even more problematic.

It doesn’t really make a lot of difference. But mention it to a confessor. It will make you feel a lot better.

 

[Monica4316]

Well, we are not prohibited from participating in Orthodox Liturgies, so definitely it does not fall under “prohibited participation”.

Since we see the Orthodox as true Apostolic Churches, they are considered “Catholics”, though not in communion with Rome.

they are in schism…

I read that according to divine law, not merely canon law, Catholics can’t worship with non Catholics… and there’s this canon:

Canon 1258§1 “It is not lawful for the faithful in any way to assist actively at or to take part in the worship of non-Catholics.”

It doesn’t really make a lot of difference. But mention it to a confessor. It will make you feel a lot better.

the problem is what if different confessors would tell me different things then I’ll never know if I’m excommunicated or not…

 

[ConstantineTG]

they are in schism…

I read that according to divine law, not merely canon law, Catholics can’t worship with non Catholics… and there’s this canon:

Canon 1258§1 “It is not lawful for the faithful in any way to assist actively at or to take part in the worship of non-Catholics.”

Well, your mind is already made up on the matter. The truth is you are incorrect and that there is nothing wrong with what you did. But if you are insistent that you are excommunicated, then why don’t you just go to your confessor and make a confession?