"If any one comes to me without hating his father and and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters..."???

[benedictus2]

The motto of the Dominicans was on the steps into their church:

VERITAS

I like that. Certainly conjures up St Dominic and St Thomas.

However, I think in every order there are some not quite right. Matthew Fox was a Dominican and yet even then he was heavily into New Age. As far as error and lie is concerned, that is certainly at the top.

 

[Padrej]

FONT=Arial]Yes, but there is no indication as to when. As I mentioned earlier, that Christ says “BUT wait” must have meant that he could see that the disciples, even at that stage were raring to go and proclaim the Gospel.

 

[benedictus2]

It is clear that you must only be reading this passage and those related from an English translation. I am using both English AND Greek. As I said the imperative is different that does not come through in English.

Okay Padrej, I consulted the Greek interlinear Bible. Literally it translates to “ And be perceiving I am dispatching the promise of the Father of me on you, you yet be seated in the city of Jerusalem till which you should be putting on power”

Where is the imperative that you are talking about in that word “yet be seated”. That is as laid back as you can possibly say it.

Nowhere in the text Greek or English will you find an imperative to move. How can both words (wait and be seated) be an imperative to act?

I work with a Greek girl who speaks and write greek so I will ask her whether one can deduce from this text that imperative.

I might say that neither do you know as you are also 2000 years removed,

That is true, but I am not making wild conjectures.

this is why I refer to the original Greek to get the meaning that is closer to what was there in the beginning.

But Padrej (unless somehow the meaning of the word wait and be seated has evolved so much) there is no meaning. You are making this meaning up.

Furthermore, you have not addressed any of the points I have raised.

• That the word ‘But wait” could possibly mean that Jesus is actually holding back His disciples who are raring to go.
• That upon them receiving the Holy Spirit this impetuousness was tempered. The fire in the belly was still there but this time around there is wisdom and discernment.
• The Holy Spirit gives the gift of courage but also wisdom.
• That the community empowered by the Holy Spirit discerned this together.
• That there were still matters to be settled, doctrinal disputes that must be addressed.
• That they needed to meet Paul
• That the reason that only Peter and John were persecuted was because they were the leaders and so the authorities would probably have thought if we get rid of the leader the rest will be scattered.
• And most importantly that they are being guided by the Holy Spirt and so the Holy Spirit is moving them according to God’s own time.
  
  And all you can produce in support for your position is this obscure imperative which I would bet if Greek scholars were to check will probably not find the same thing that you seem to be seeing in it.

Once again you are assuming that I have not listened to your response. ONCE AGAIN, I cite that the original Greek of these passages do not support what you apparently getting from reading only English translations.

Well I’ve cited the literal Greek translation above. And it doesn’t seem to support your interpretation. I could be wrong but I would need someone who knows Greek well to convince me of that. My office mate should be able to confirm that.

On another note. You are questioning the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the apostles for dragging their feet.

How about I apply that to you? I can also say, how come you are not Catholic yet? Why are you dragging your feet? No excuses you must convert now. Any delay is aiding and abetting the devil. And this posts that you are making, why they could be promptings of the devil to paint the pillars of the Church in a bad light so as to dissuade others from converting.

Would you say that that is a fait assessment of your situation? Or would you outright say what absolute rubbish?

 

[Padrej]

Okay Padrej, I consulted the Greek interlinear Bible. Literally it translates to “ And be perceiving I am dispatching the promise of the Father of me on you, you yet be seated in

 

[KathleenGee]

The Jews wandered 40 years in the desert. The bible refers to 40 year periods of sufferings. St. John the Baptist prepared for the coming of the Lord in the desert, Jesus prayed for 40 days. It was 40 days between the Resurrection and Pentecost for the coming of the Holy Spirit and the beginning of the Church.

Mormons use this 40 day period after Christ’s ascension as probable when He allegedly came to America.

The 40 day period is one of personal difficulties and also one of preparation and detachment to seek God’s will above everything. Following the events of salvation history, we can assume in their hiding, the Apostles did not have the strength to proclaim the Good News. They did not have the means to go out to the people.

The Holy Spirit confirmed them…‘in spirit and truth’…and the beginning church was with them…Mary, the holy women and holy men also in attendance. It is here the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit that provided the Oral Tradition to ensure that the teachings and life of Christ would be proclaimed…so even the work of the Apostles was not based on their witness or enthusiasm and faith in the Lord…but only by the Holy Spirit.

Thus, the Apostles were indeed not only consecrated, but they were strengthened and given the means to go out and to speak with the Holy Spirit communicating to those of other languages the truth of Christ. That was a great miracle and also confirmed that it is truly the Holy Spirit at work in protecting Christology and the teaching magesterium of the Church.

Each member of the Catholic Church, no matter the rank, is called to a life of holiness that they must work for. And in this instance, God favors no one.

The Apostles cannot claim that they went out on their own merits. They could not. It was the Holy Spirit Who enabled them. The Lord said He would send His comforter Who would teach them many things, and that they would do much more than Him.

It is always a surprise to see such great events of Christ be located in such a small geographic area. And yet His church is teaching Him throughout the entire world.

 

[Padrej]

The Jews wandered 40 years in the desert. The bible refers to 40 year periods of sufferings. St. John the Baptist prepared for the coming of the Lord in the desert, Jesus prayed for 40 days. It was 40 days between the Resurrection and Pentecost for the coming of the Holy Spirit and the beginning of the Church.

Mormons use this 40 day period after Christ’s ascension as probable when He allegedly came to America.

The 40 day period is one of personal difficulties and also one of preparation and detachment to seek God’s will above everything. Following the events of salvation history, we can assume in their hiding, the Apostles did not have the strength to proclaim the Good News. They did not have the means to go out to the people.

The Holy Spirit confirmed them…‘in spirit and truth’…and the beginning church was with them…Mary, the holy women and holy men also in attendance. It is here the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit that provided the Oral Tradition to ensure that the teachings and life of Christ would be proclaimed…so even the work of the Apostles was not based on their witness or enthusiasm and faith in the Lord…but only by the Holy Spirit.

Thus, the Apostles were indeed not only consecrated, but they were strengthened and given the means to go out and to speak with the Holy Spirit communicating to those of other languages the truth of Christ. That was a great miracle and also confirmed that it is truly the Holy Spirit at work in protecting Christology and the teaching magesterium of the Church.

Each member of the Catholic Church, no matter the rank, is called to a life of holiness that they must work for. And in this instance, God favors no one.

The Apostles cannot claim that they went out on their own merits. They could not. It was the Holy Spirit Who enabled them. The Lord said He would send His comforter Who would teach them many things, and that they would do much more than Him.

It is always a surprise to see such great events of Christ be located in such a small geographic area. And yet His church is teaching Him throughout the entire world.

I am curious by the way that you formulated the highlighted portions above if this means you favor women in the ordained ministry?
Please do not take this the wrong way, I have heard this argument almost verbatim for women in the ordained ministry. Just curious.

 

[KathleenGee]

Regarding women priests. No.

I worked with Catholic priests in mission land. I was treated as equal. But the more I was there, the more I stepped back…

I read the Ratzinger Report, and Pope Benedict at that time defined woman as the protected gender.

We are not called to holy orders and this was not done in ancient Jewish times, although I have met a Jewess rabbi a few years ago.

I see women more as receivers of the Word. I stated previously that Mary was the first evangelist, a pregnant lay woman bearing the Good News during the Infancia of Christ.
Mary Magdalene was the first witness to the completion of Christ’s mission on earth. We can assume she was present at Pentecost as part of the beginning foundation of the Church.

Interesting, last night I thanked God I wasn’t a priest so I would not be held accountable for such responsibility in the care of souls. I do not think women have the physical strength to carry out their daily duties…in a Catholic priesthood…going out at night…somebody coming into the confessional…but then the intent becomes apparent is not what one thought…breaking up fights, trying to communicate to man held bondage by original sin. They don’t listen to women.

Women have a far greater propensity to being most personally abused than a man.

And we cannot physically protect ourselves from onslaught. Of course, there are always exception to the rule. But having worked side by side with young priests when I was young, they did have more stamina and ability to bounce events off…where with me they would stay may be two weeks. I eventually moved to a nursing mission with another young nurse. We have sensitivities about work that they don’t have. I really needed a female companion. I still hear from my priest friend to this day, 37 years later.

Women have 8 times the capacity for grief. And we also pick up on needs men don’t perceive. Women are the other half of Christ’s servants. We also bring the spirit of Mary into our work. Many clerics also need female spiritual companions as our insight is a great support to them.

I tend to find more strength in diversity as well as be in a more diverse church of different gifts. I never felt called to be a priest but to be a mother, then the missionary thing, and to just help people. I have to stay with this, otherwise I am not truthful. I know many competent Catholic nuns, but I do not see any of them having the strength and lack of vulnerability to do exactly what the priests are already doing.

I never really ever thought much in my life why the Lord picked only men for priesthood. In fact towards the end of my mission experience, it just came to my mind one time after being among them, I could see why men are called to the priesthood and women aren’t, and I prefer to stay as I am.

 

[benedictus2]

“You yet be seated” indicates this event has yet to come,

And how do you infer that from this text? Because of the word “yet”? The “yet” here means “but”, that is why it was translated to “but wait”

follow it with the rest, “Till which you should be putting on power;” This is indicative of after you are seated then you move. Putting on power is a reference to the Holy Spirit giving them the power to do just that.

Nope it doesn’t indicate any “immediacy” or “haste” at all. As I said before, all it says is after you receive the Holy Spirit, then you preach. No mention as to how long after they receive the Holy Spirit they are supposed to leave Jerusalem.

With all due respect you are only focusing on the first part and not the whole. It is the latter part “till your should be putting on power” is an action phrase requiring action on the part of the listener.

Yes, but the entire verse does not convey that the action must be done IMMEDIATELY. No indication as to whether this should happen in 1 day, 1 month or 1 year.

That is what this current problem is about. You say that it indicates that they have to mode IMMEDATLEY. I say, yes they are to move but not necessarily immediately because nowhere in the entire verse nor in any other verses in Acts will you even find a hint of a timeline.

Also keep in mind Koine Greek or Biblical Greek is not the same as today’s Greek. That language has evolved. I have a Greek testament with today’s Greek and original Greek and the two are vastly different.

Not that much that the nuance of “ immediately” is lost. I doubt that very much. You are making this up.

PLEASE look to the entire verse and its related verses.

I have. Actually, I have done better and looked at the whole scenario including Acts and nothing there supports your position that is why you had to resort to telling me the Greek means something else.

Then when I take up your challenge and actually provide you the literal Greek translation you give an explanation that is not at all seen in the text.

* It could mean this if you only look to one part of the verse.

EXACTLY!!! And THAT is what you have done. YOU took one piddly little verse and blew it all out of proportion. When that did not work you appealed to the Greek which does not stand up either to whatever your claiming it is supposed to say.

First of all painting them as human rather than super hero saints is hardly painting them in a bad light.

No it had nothing to do with painting them human. You were implying that these men, somehow were working towards the devils’s ends and were not abiding by what the Holy Spirit is revealing to them when :

• You do not know what the Spirit is guiding them to
• You have no idea about the conditions at that time surrounding the events there after aside from what was written in the Bible.
• You are reading this as a 21st century man.

 

[benedictus2]

Second how do you know that I am dragging my feet and the Catholic church is not? To say otherwise is to give the Catholic church a bad reputation as well as they also have a discernment process they must follow.

Voila! Exactly, exactly, exactly!

  This Padrej is precisely my point:  **I do not know if you are dragging your feet and neither do you when it comes to the apostles.**

  Yet you have the temerity to question the Apostles’ movement and suggest they were dragging their feet (and much worse - saying that this is helping Satan’s ends - when you have got not clue as to what was happening at that time save for the little that was written) and you ask me “How do you know I am dragging my feet?!!

  So I say back to you what you said above in reference to the apostles, **which applies as much to you:** “God's time and ours are not the same, but as I said many do not always heed the call. Ask some priests if they answered the call right away or did they pray on it and procrastinate. I met FEW who did not procrastinate. “

  The apostles left their boats and followed Christ immediately upon their encounter with Him. THAT was even before they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

  You can find excuses for your procrastination and yet you think the apostles have no valid reasons ( when I have shown several) for remaining in Jerusalem. As I have said before, plain arrogance.

  And another thing.  I have not encountered anyone who has ever questioned the time it took for the apostles to get out of Jerusalem. That was a non – issue to the Fathers of the Church and I think even for the reformers. As a matter of fact probably even for “modern scholars”.

  So why is it a problem for you that you go to all sorts of gyrations -even to the point of saying the Greek is saying what it is not saying? 

  Do you know how long they remained in Jerusalem?

What according to you would have been the acceptable time for them to remain and then go? A week, A month, A year, etc?
Do you know exactly how they occupied their time while they were in Jerusalem and can you say with certainty that it was a pointless occupying of their time?
Do you know for a fact that they had absolutely no business remaining in Jerusalem and yet they did?
Do you know when they got out of Jerusalem?

  Because unless you can answer the above, then your whole complaint is irrational to say the least. It is a total non-issue, a nano fraction of a molehill, which you have managed to make into Everest.

 

[benedictus2]

Regarding women priests. No.

I worked with Catholic priests in mission land. I was treated as equal. But the more I was there, the more I stepped back…

I read the Ratzinger Report, and Pope Benedict at that time defined woman as the protected gender.

We are not called to holy orders and this was not done in ancient Jewish times, although I have met a Jewess rabbi a few years ago.

I see women more as receivers of the Word. I stated previously that Mary was the first evangelist, a pregnant lay woman bearing the Good News during the Infancia of Christ.
Mary Magdalene was the first witness to the completion of Christ’s mission on earth. We can assume she was present at Pentecost as part of the beginning foundation of the Church.

Interesting, last night I thanked God I wasn’t a priest so I would not be held accountable for such responsibility in the care of souls. I do not think women have the physical strength to carry out their daily duties…in a Catholic priesthood…going out at night…somebody coming into the confessional…but then the intent becomes apparent is not what one thought…breaking up fights, trying to communicate to man held bondage by original sin. They don’t listen to women.

Women have a far greater propensity to being most personally abused than a man.

And we cannot physically protect ourselves from onslaught. Of course, there are always exception to the rule. But having worked side by side with young priests when I was young, they did have more stamina and ability to bounce events off…where with me they would stay may be two weeks. I eventually moved to a nursing mission with another young nurse. We have sensitivities about work that they don’t have. I really needed a female companion. I still hear from my priest friend to this day, 37 years later.

Women have 8 times the capacity for grief. And we also pick up on needs men don’t perceive. Women are the other half of Christ’s servants. We also bring the spirit of Mary into our work. Many clerics also need female spiritual companions as our insight is a great support to them.

I tend to find more strength in diversity as well as be in a more diverse church of different gifts. I never felt called to be a priest but to be a mother, then the missionary thing, and to just help people. I have to stay with this, otherwise I am not truthful. I know many competent Catholic nuns, but I do not see any of them having the strength and lack of vulnerability to do exactly what the priests are already doing.

I never really ever thought much in my life why the Lord picked only men for priesthood. In fact towards the end of my mission experience, it just came to my mind one time after being among them, I could see why men are called to the priesthood and women aren’t, and I prefer to stay as I am.

Good post Kathleen.

For you and Padrej - Peter Kreeft gave a most insightful talk on why we do not allow priestesses.

peterkreeft.com/audio/09_priestesses.htm

You can listen to it there or download it,

 

[Jimmy_B]

What does this mean?

Luke 14:26,27

""If any one comes to me without hating his father 7 and* and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple."*

What does this mean? Does this mean that we can ignore or violate the Forth Commandment, to - "Honor your father and your mother…?

****I don’t think so. I believe that this verse is interpreted differently in Protestant circle than it is in Catholicism. Am I wrong? ****

What does this verse mean to you?

The below footnote (#7), was taken from the on-line, Catholic, NAB Bible. This is what I believe it means…What do you think? Does this create a problem for some non-Catholic Christians, when it comes to loving Mary the Mother of God?

7 [26] Hating his father . . . : cf the similar saying in Matthew 10:37. The disciple’s family must take second place to the absolute dedication involved in following Jesus
(see also Luke 9:59-62).

Matthew 10:37-38
37 "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up his cross 15 and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Luke 9:58-6258 Jesus answered him, “Foxes have dens and birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to rest his head.” 59 And to another he said, “Follow me.” But he replied, “(Lord,) let me go first and bury my father.” 60 But he answeed him, “Let the dead bury their dead. 28 But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61 And another said, “I will follow you, Lord, but first let me say farewell to my family at home.” 62 (To him) Jesus said, “No one who sets a hand to the plow and looks to what was left behind is fit for the kingdom of God.”

I would like to see the Catholic and non-Catholic response to this question.

Thank you!

 

[benedictus2]

Dear Padrej,

I think we’ve debated the topic of the apostles to the hilt so just letting you know that I am bowing out of the discussion.

Peace and Joy of Christ,

Cory

 

[benedictus2]

What does this mean?

Luke 14:26,27

""If any one comes to me without hating his father 7 and* and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple."*

**What does this mean? Does this mean that we can ignore or violate the Forth Commandment, to - "Honor your father and your mother…? **

**I don’t think so. I believe that this verse is interpreted differently in Protestant circle than it is in Catholicism. Am I wrong? **

What does this verse mean to you?

The below footnote (#7), was taken from the on-line, Catholic, NAB Bible. This is what I believe it means…What do you think? Does this create a problem for some non-Catholic Christians, when it comes to loving Mary the Mother of God?

7 [26] Hating his father . . . : cf the similar saying in Matthew 10:37. The disciple’s family must take second place to the absolute dedication involved in following Jesus
(see also Luke 9:59-62).

Matthew 10:37-38
37 "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up his cross 15 and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Luke 9:58-6258 Jesus answered him, “Foxes have dens and birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to rest his head.” 59 And to another he said, “Follow me.” But he replied, “(Lord,) let me go first and bury my father.” 60 But he answeed him, “Let the dead bury their dead. 28 But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61 And another said, “I will follow you, Lord, but first let me say farewell to my family at home.” 62 (To him) Jesus said, “No one who sets a hand to the plow and looks to what was left behind is fit for the kingdom of God.”

I would like to see the Catholic and non-Catholic response to this question.

Thank you!

Sorry Jimmy, I have done a million yadas and have not addressed your OP. Mea Culpa.

Apologies too for derailing your thread.

The first thing that came to mind with regards your OP was what I heard someone say - “I would kill for my family” and somehow made it sound as if it was a noble thing to do.

Then I thought about Mary and her fiat that, she knew would have meant ridicule for her and for her family.

If anyone was a true disciple of Jesus, it was her.

 

[Deacon_JAR]

WOW
You are truly fulfilling that scripture.
My “battle” was different in that my father was opposed to my ordination because it was not in the faith that he was. He did not understand the process so he chose to argue with me that I was doing something wrong. My brother in law being a word I cannot say on this forum saw me leaving in my clerical collar for the hospital and said, “Happy Halloween.” He later claimed he said this because my father did not approve. I still loved the Lord more than what their opinion of me was. I knew who God called me to be.
I always have liked the old saying God does not call the qualified He qualifies the called.
The day my father passed away at 3AM I had to do a funeral in my own church and the family could not understand WHY I would still do the service when my father had just died. My commitment was to them at that moment, the rest of my family had to wait till after the service at my church before I would return a call to them.

Padrej, may the Peace and Love of our Good Lord be with you. No doubt in my mind that your earthly father now rejoices in your priesthood. Yes “Padre”, your experience is a “living parable” that answers the question. I want to thank the Lord for blessing you with His priesthood, a priesthood in the line of Melchizedek. May the Lord continue to bless your hands, vessels of flesh and bone used by our Heavenly Father, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to give to us sinners the Flesh and Blood of His only begottem Son, our Paschal Lamb. Your hands bring to us our Bread of Life, the Spiritual Nourishment that sustains us during our journey to the True Promised Land. May the Holy Spirit never depart from you, may His wisdom and guidance be used to shepherd His flock, to whom you have been called to serve..

Your brother in Christ,

Deacon Juan

 

[Deacon_JAR]

Wow DeaconJAR, that is beautiful!! Yes, the important thing is to be able to say like Job " The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away blessed be the Lord.

When I broke my foot and it seemed to be taking for ever to heal, I got so frustrated and cried to God. But after the tears, all I could pray was that : “The Lord Giveth and the Lord Taketh. Blessed be the Lord.”

I think it is important to pray even before the “bad” things happen to always be disposed to His Will.

My dear friend Cory, may the Peace and Love of our Good Lord be always with you. It is so good to hear from you one more time. In 1992, my Lord brought into my life a spiritual mentor and counselor, Msgr. Joe James from Lubbock, TX. There is a priest who loves so much the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He spent 8 to 10 hrs a day in the confessional, bringing joy to many hearts who were starving for peace. He became our spiritual father and dear friend. In the fall of 1998 we attended a retreat at the Mercy Retreat Center in Slaton, TX; Msgr. Joe was the founder of that center. I remembered very well the moment that I told him that Elaine had been diagnosed with cancer. When he heard the news he replied ***“PRAISE GOD.” ***When I heard those words my entire being was disturbed and I didn’t know how to react. Can I praise God when my beloved wife of 23 years has been diagnosed with cancer? The pain that found shelter in my heart was blinding me, my feelings were overwhelmed by numbness. It took me time to really understand Msgr. Joe’s comment. We call this a "Sacrifice of Praise"; we praise Him in good days or in bad days, in sickness or in health, in days of abundance or in days of scarceness, when we feel like or when we don’t feel like. Is there any time when He does not deserve to be PRAISED? As the scripture says, "Lord, open my lips; my mouth will proclaim your praise. For you do not desire sacrifice; a burnt offering you would not accept. My sacrifice, God, is a broken spirit…" (Psalm 51:17-19)

 

[Jimmy_B]

My dear friend Cory, may the Peace and Love of our Good Lord be always with you. It is so good to hear from you one more time. In 1992, my Lord brought into my life a spiritual mentor and counselor, Msgr. Joe James from Lubbock, TX. There is a priest who loves so much the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He spent 8 to 10 hrs a day in the confessional, bringing joy to many hearts who were starving for peace. He became our spiritual father and dear friend. In the fall of 1998 we attended a retreat at the Mercy Retreat Center in Slaton, TX; Msgr. Joe was the founder of that center. I remembered very well the moment that I told him that Elaine had been diagnosed with cancer. When he heard the news he replied ***“PRAISE GOD.” ***When I heard those words my entire being was disturbed and I didn’t know how to react. Can I praise God when my beloved wife of 23 years has been diagnosed with cancer? The pain that found shelter in my heart was blinding me, my feelings were overwhelmed by numbness. It took me time to really understand Msgr. Joe’s comment. We call this a "Sacrifice of Praise"; we praise Him in good days or in bad days, in sickness or in health, in days of abundance or in days of scarceness, when we feel like or when we don’t feel like. Is there any time when He does not deserve to be PRAISED? As the scripture says, "Lord, open my lips; my mouth will proclaim your praise. For you do not desire sacrifice; a burnt offering you would not accept. My sacrifice, God, is a broken spirit…" (Psalm 51:17-19)

It is that “Sudden and unexpected death” that many Catholics are afraid of… If they are not prepared to meet their Maker (in a state of Grace)…

 

[Deacon_JAR]

In the literal sense of the the word euangelion could mean anyone who brings the message of Good news of the Gospel. As St. Francis of Assisi said, “Preach the Gospel where ever you go and if you have to use words.” I do not see this as an exclusion of women at all. Take Mother Theresa, I dare you to say she was not a messenger of the Gospel.

Padrej, may the Peace, Love, and Priesthood of our Lord be with you. You stated,

In the literal sense of the the word euangelion could mean anyone who brings the message of Good news of the Gospel.

Considering the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ is the “Gospel made Flesh”, then we must conclude that our Blessed Mother, was the first one who brought into and shared with the world THE GOSPEL; our first lay evangelist.

 

[benedictus2]

My dear friend Cory, may the Peace and Love of our Good Lord be always with you. It is so good to hear from you one more time. In 1992, my Lord brought into my life a spiritual mentor and counselor, Msgr. Joe James from Lubbock, TX. There is a priest who loves so much the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He spent 8 to 10 hrs a day in the confessional, bringing joy to many hearts who were starving for peace. He became our spiritual father and dear friend. In the fall of 1998 we attended a retreat at the Mercy Retreat Center in Slaton, TX; Msgr. Joe was the founder of that center. I remembered very well the moment that I told him that Elaine had been diagnosed with cancer. When he heard the news he replied ***“PRAISE GOD.” ***When I heard those words my entire being was disturbed and I didn’t know how to react. Can I praise God when my beloved wife of 23 years has been diagnosed with cancer? The pain that found shelter in my heart was blinding me, my feelings were overwhelmed by numbness. It took me time to really understand Msgr. Joe’s comment. We call this a "Sacrifice of Praise"; we praise Him in good days or in bad days, in sickness or in health, in days of abundance or in days of scarceness, when we feel like or when we don’t feel like. Is there any time when He does not deserve to be PRAISED? As the scripture says, "Lord, open my lips; my mouth will proclaim your praise. For you do not desire sacrifice; a burnt offering you would not accept. My sacrifice, God, is a broken spirit…" (Psalm 51:17-19)

Oh DeaconJar, that is just another beautiful post!

It brings to mind someone’s post here at CAF that so impressed me and yet I cannot even remember what this member wrote, save this : " I have just found out that I have been **blessed **with 4th stage Hodgkins Lymphoma " (I think I got the name of the cancer right but the words here are not verbatim as I cannot remember now which thread it was).

This also echoe’s St Ignatius’s “Suscipe”, which I here post for those who do not know it

***Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty,
my memory, my understanding
and my entire will,
All I have and call my own.

You have given all to me.
To you, Lord, I return it.

Everything is yours; do with it what you will.
Give me only your love and your grace.
That is enough for me.
**

 

[John7]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B
What does this mean?

Luke 14:26,27

"“If any one comes to me without hating his father 7 and and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.”

What does this mean? Does this mean that we can ignore or violate the Forth Commandment, to - "Honor your father and your mother…?

7 [26] Hating his father . . . : cf the similar saying in Matthew 10:37. The disciple’s family must take second place to the absolute dedication involved in following Jesus
(see also Luke 9:59-62).

So, absolute dedication to Jesus is priority
but, only honor mother…still love her, but love her less than Jesus who is God.

Therefore, with respect to Mary, I honor her but love her less than Jesus.

But that means when following Jesus I have to hate her (w.r.t. loving more/loving less) ??

So if I use Jesus’ nomenclature then I hate who I honor?? what?

Jesus loved the Father who is God
I’m assuming that he loved the Father more than all (1st and greatest commandment)
and anyone else would be second place
so that he loved his mother less than his heavenly Father

Therefore Jesus hated his mother

I guess maybe what it comes down to is
what has more force:
the 1st and greatest commandment (and Jesus is God) or the 4th commandment,
what takes precedence ?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.
Jesus’ love for heavenly Father = 1st and great commandment
Jesus’ love for Mary falls under the 2nd great commandment
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

any help…

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think it means don’t let anyone separate you from Christ, no matter how much you love them. If people try to turn you away from Christ, or pooh-pooh your faith, then you should hate what they are telling you and don’t listen to them at all. This includes our siblings, friends, children and parents. Even though you love them, you hate this aspect of them and would never let their ideas or words influence your love of God and your religion.