If anyone could prove to me that Christ is not the Truth.. I'd prefer to stay with Christ

  • Thread starter Thread starter devonsams
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

devonsams

Guest
“If anyone could prove to me that the truth lay outside Christ, and if in fact Christ is not the truth, i should choose prefer to stay with Christ and not with truth.”
Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Comments on this quote?
 
It’s sounds like a roundabout way of trying to compliment Christ, but if the original premise was “hypothetically” true, the consequence would be silly. But I think that’s his way of saying Christ must be the truth in hyperbolic language.
 
I think he should have stuck with writing about life in Russian Gulags. 😉
 
Maybe we can see this as saying: “If the truth is not in beauty then I should choose prefer to stay with beauty and not with truth.”

But how can beauty not be true? How can truth not be beautiful? Does that make sense?

I’ve actually been thinking about this lately. What if our faith is wrong and there is no salvation or God? Should we still stay with God?

He also could have just meant the person of Jesus (vs. other claims of God) and not God in general. In this case, he could still admire Jesus, although he must have been a deluded man from this point of view.
 
The fact that a famous writer (or philosopher) once said something does not make that statement true, or even sensical.

If Christ were not true, what thinking human being would “stay with him?” That would be the equivalent of “staying with” the Easter bunny or the Great Pumpkin once you knew the truth.

Saint Paul got it right; if Christ did not rise from death, we are of all the most to be pitied.

Better in that eventuality to be an atheist and grab the gusto in life, as it would then be our only taste of life!

ICXC NIKA .
 
I agree with Marco polo. I’m wondering if that is even an accurate translation of the Russian.
 
I think it’s simply a statement of loyalty and devotion. When you pick it apart logically, yes the quote sounds silly, but if you simply take it as “I will stick with Christ no matter what,” then it’s a good sentiment.

I imagine he saw the biggest threat to Christianity being those who try to prove Christ as a fictional character, and he was just declaring his devotion. “I don’t care what you guys can prove, I will always believe!” This is what true commitment looks like. 🙂
 
devonsams said:
“If anyone could prove to me that the truth lay outside Christ, and if in fact Christ is not the truth, i should choose prefer to stay with Christ and not with truth.”
Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Comments on this quote?
Click to expand...
Perhaps what he was getting at was the fact that he trusts Christ over his own judgment of what is truth? Just a thought!
 
smichhertz said:
Perhaps what he was getting at was the fact that he trusts Christ over his own judgment of what is truth? Just a thought!
Click to expand...
Sort of “I would rather trust Christ because of who He is, rather than trust myself because of who I am.”?

To a theist it sounds profoundly reasonable. It comes from a person who knows both himself and Christ.

To an atheist it will be “nonsense”, but only because they refuse to examine Christ much less get to know Him.
 
DaddyGirl said:
My comment would be…that Dostoyevsky (if he’s talking about himself here and this quote is accurate) is doing the exact same thing many Christians accuse Atheists of doing.

Many Christians say that even with “the truth” staring at them in the face in front of them, Atheists refuse to see and believe it…and prefer to continue believing just what they “want” to believe, whether it is true or not.

Which is exactly what he’s saying he would do, too.

So basically, he’s saying that truth is…RELATIVE.

.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe he is saying that truth is relative because he is not claiming that there can be multiple truths, or that the ‘real truth’ is in fact wrong. He is saying his love of Christ is so intense that even if it were all a smoke and mirrors game, he could not ‘unlove’ Christ in his heart, and so would knowingly be in error.
 
DaddyGirl said:
My comment would be…that Dostoyevsky (if he’s talking about himself here and this quote is accurate) is doing the exact same thing many Christians accuse Atheists of doing.

Many Christians say that even with “the truth” staring at them in the face in front of them, Atheists refuse to see and believe it…and prefer to continue believing just what they “want” to believe, whether it is true or not.

Which is exactly what he’s saying he would do, too.

So basically, he’s saying that truth is…RELATIVE.

.
Click to expand...
He is not saying that truth is relative. He is not saying that if truth lay outside Christ, he would still find “his own” truth within Christ. What he is saying is that even if there is some absolute truth that lies outside of Christ, he would follow Christ. Relativism would be to deny that there is truth, or to believe that there could be “multiple truths” for different people (or something). Dostoevsky is saying he would embrace falsehood rather than truth if that were necessary for following Christ.

It is existentialism, not relativism. Perhaps he would support this statement with a belief that the alternatives to following Christ are nihilistic and depressing (even if absolutely true) and so not worth adhering to. (This probably would not constitute a complete disjunction in a philosophical argument, but he was a novelist, not a philosopher.)
 
In my opinion he is saying that there is nothing more beautiful than Christ, there is no happiness, meaning in life possible than Christ.

An Immortality, a life without Christ would be meaningless, and unhappy, it is an argument which looks like of Saint Augustine:

“If there is something more excellent than truth it is God, if not than truth itself is God.”

Dostoyevsky version would be: “If there is something more excellent than truth is Christ, if not, I would prefer to stay with Christ than with truth.”
 
devonsams said:
“If anyone could prove to me that the truth lay outside Christ, and if in fact Christ is not the truth, i should choose prefer to stay with Christ and not with truth.”
Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Comments on this quote?
Click to expand...
To me, he’s saying that he is in love with the idea of Christ but has not had the experience of the Holy Spirit that would confirm the Truth of Christ (and how He rises from the dead within us, per St. Paul). He believes in, but does not Know, Jesus.

I once heard a debate between a well-known apologist and an atheist. The host asked each, “What would it take for either of you to change your position?” Surprisingly, to me, the apologist said, “Well, I guess if they proved conclusively that they had found the body of Christ, that would do it.”

The Bible says that just believing in Jesus is also Redemptive - but somehow I think that means believing no matter what happens that might give the appearance of falseness.

Going from belief to Trust meant that when something difficult happened, I assumed that my lack of Understanding was the difficulty - not the Truth of Jesus. Made all the difference for spiritual growth.
 
DaddyGirl said:
On the “relative” bit…you’re right, you’re right. I just re-read it.

He’s saying that he would choose to believe what is wrong, what is *not *truth, what is false…even if it was clearly shown to him to false.

That doesn’t sound so wise.

.
Click to expand...
The wisdom is not in rejecting the truth, but in how fervently he loves Christ. He is speaking about his emotions for his faith, implying that nothing (even error) could separate him from his beliefs. Perhaps he finds the best possible version of himself in Christ, and so would want to be that person than turnover to whatever this hypothetical ‘other truth’ would be.

Is there any indication of what ‘truth’ he is referring to? If the implication is that the ‘real truth’ is that there is no God, then I’d say it becomes even wiser because he is affirming that the Christian faith is the best way to live life, even if there is no Christian God.
 
To me, anyone who continues to adore, worship, etc. any person or deity after they have been proven to be false is engage in a personality cult. There are dozens of examples in history, and I cannot think of one that came out well.
 
There is a fascinating article about Dostoievsky’s theology by James Townsend which points out that his statement was probably “literary hyperbole in adoration of Christ”. This explanation is supported by Nicholas Berdyaev’s view that he “loved Christ consumingly”. pravoslavie.ru/english/51498.htm

After all he was not a philosopher but a writer who expressed his ideas through his novels rather than academic treatises. For him the truth is to be found not in abstract ideas but in living and suffering like Jesus for the sake of others.
"Can it be true what’s taught us in religion that we shall all rise again from the dead and shall live and see each other again, Ilyusha too?
Click to expand...
  • The Brothers Karamazov
Alyosha’s answer to Kolya’s question sums up Dostoievsky’s position:
“Certainly.”
Click to expand...
That is** the living truth** which transcends all others because it stems from God’s love in action demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top