"If anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in scripture"

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JonNC said:
Oh, they had the teachings of the Apostles. Let’s remember that Paul’s epistles were letters written down. for example. But the thing the early Church didn’t have was dramatic schism, where within the Tradition of the Church there was disagreement.
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Understood.

So then it was not the Scriptures that were the “norm” for discerning God’s revelation but rather the Church’s authority that declared that which was God’s Word and that which was not.
 
Cat_Herder said:
Well, do you believe that good works are sufficient for salvation? It doesn’t say “every good faith” or “every good grace” now does it?

Isn’t it ironic that the Protestants who point to 2 Tim 3:16-17 as proof that they don’t need the Church to give them Sacred Tradition are the same folks who bash the Church for teaching “works-righteousness?” And what does their proof-text teach about the Bible? That it is sufficient for works-righteousness. NOT that it is sufficient for attaining faith, grace, or salvation.

What’s more, you could look at 2 Timothy 2:20-22. Timothy there uses the same words (pan ergon agathon) which are translated “every good work” in 2Tim 3:16-17, but this time in reference to “shun[ning] youthful passions, and pursu[ing] righteousness, faith, love, and peace.” So in addition to Scripture, you need to shun passions and have righteousness, faith, love, and peace in order to be equipped for every good work.

Notice that he does NOT say that you can obtain correct faith from reading the Scriptures. It’s on the list alongside having the Scriptures; it is something you need to have in addition to having the Scriptures in order to be equipped for every good work. Let’s say that your mom tells you to go to the grocery store to get the ingredients to make an apple pie. So she tells you “to be equipped to make an apple pie, you need apples, a crust, filling, sugar, cinnamon, flour, milk, and eggs.” If you arrive home with no apples, she is not going to be able to make an apple pie. “But we can get the apples from baking the pie!,” you say. Not according to mom, or common sense for that matter. And if you think you can get correct faith from reading the Scriptures based on 2 Timothy, you are doing the same thing, just with faith instead of apples. Your apple pie is going to be incomplete and so is your equipment to be perfect and to do every good work.

So where are you going to get your faith to have along with the Scriptures to be prepared for every good work? From the elders of the Church.

And… According to verse 14, you also need to avoid “wrangling over words” in order to be equipped for every good work. More irony, eh?
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It is clear that you don’t know the nuts and bolts of the argument very well!
Funnily enough, the Jehovah’s Witnesses make many of the same claims about their church! But we wouldn’t go running around saying that they are correct would we!
 
Nikicosier said:
It is clear that you don’t know the nuts and bolts of the argument very well!
Funnily enough, the Jehovah’s Witnesses make many of the same claims about their church! But we wouldn’t go running around saying that they are correct would we!
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Is there something specific in Cat Herder’s argument that you find uninformed?
 
Farsight001 said:
Simply throwing out a link does not answer the question.
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Especially not one from anti-Catholic Matt Slick.:rolleyes:

Moreover, your cited article is a prize winning example of the very thing this thread is about. People teaching things that the Bible does not actually say. If faith alone (Sola Fide) was all it takes then why doesn’t Matthew 25:31-46 say that?

And of course there’s Galatians 5:6 which plainly says that salvation is all about faith working through love.

You’ll notice that Slick’s article fails to deal with either of these 2 passages, which makes sense since they clearly contradict his errant teaching. 🤷
 
Nikicosier said:
It is clear that you don’t know the nuts and bolts of the argument very well!
Funnily enough, the Jehovah’s Witnesses make many of the same claims about their church! But we wouldn’t go running around saying that they are correct would we!
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Nikicosier, at the risk of sounding like a “moderator wannabe”, I would like to kindly point out that you’ve reactivated a thread which is about a year old, which is generally against CAF policy. Moreover, the topic of this thread is Sola Scriptura, not faith & works.
Nikicosier said:
I think this explains the relationship a little better…
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In other words, you don’t really have an issue with what Cat Herder specifically posted, but with Catholic teachings in general on the subject of faith & works. In light of that, it would be better for you to simply start a new thread discussing that topic. That way, you would not be reactivating an old thread, and would garner more participation. This thread is already ten pages in length, and many people do not have time to read through that much material in order to participate in the ongoing discussion.

On a side note, please be careful in providing links to websites that could be objectively described as being blatantly anti-Catholic (please see #17 in CAF’s Banned Topics List). I don’t know much about CARM, but it could be that it is one of those websites deemed to be such.
 
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