If Catholic & EO unite, who can be Pope?

[Lee]

Just curious as to what would happen if the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox would re-unite, what would happen if an Eastern Orthodox was elected Pope? They don´t have Cardinals in the EO church do they? I know if would be unlikely, but if it happened, being the Bishop of Rome, wouldnt he have to celebrate Holy Mass in the Latin Rite? Just a thought. Hoping it happens in my lifetime, it would be a real witness to healing power of Christ.

Lee

 

[Mannyfit75]

Just curious as to what would happen if the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox would re-unite, what would happen if an Eastern Orthodox was elected Pope? They don´t have Cardinals in the EO church do they? I know if would be unlikely, but if it happened, being the Bishop of Rome, wouldnt he have to celebrate Holy Mass in the Latin Rite? Just a thought. Hoping it happens in my lifetime, it would be a real witness to healing power of Christ.

Lee

If the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox unit. They would be like it was before the Schism. The Pope (if the current Pope dies) can be any cardinal elected by the Cardinal of College. I would be that the Eastern Orthodox bishops would also take part in the election process, and elect a new Pope.

Suppose if unification happen today? Well, the Pope will still be Pope Benedict XVI. He is there until he dies, or can no longer serve as Pope if health conditions make it impossible. However, all the Popes I know hold the See of Peter until death.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

If the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox unit. They would be like it was before the Schism. The Pope (if the current Pope dies) can be any cardinal elected by the Cardinal of College. I would be that the Eastern Orthodox bishops would also take part in the election process, and elect a new Pope.

Suppose if unification happen today? Well, the Pope will still be Pope Benedict XVI. He is there until he dies, or can no longer serve as Pope if health conditions make it impossible. However, all the Popes I know hold the See of Peter until death.

I was under the impression that any Ordained Priest could be made Pope

 

[bighodag]

Ahem, per Canon 1024, any baptised Catholic male may be elected Pope. Priesthood is not a requirement, nor a barrier.

Second, as the election is for the Bishop of Rome (Latin Rite), whether Orthodox prelates would have a vote or not is a big depends. It would depend on how the Orthodox were folded back into the Church.

Currently, I believe only Latin Rite members vote. The patriarchs of the Melkite, Chalcedonean, Syro-Malabar and other Catholic churches don’t help select the Bishop of Rome. Likely this model would be followed and Orthodox prelates would not have a vote.

However, were the Orthodox made part and parcel of the Latin Church, then the Orthodox prelates would likely have a vote.

As the Orthodox came not out of Rome, but out of the Eastern Catholic Churchs, I suspect that the Orthodox will be blended back into their respective Catholic Churches. For example, Greek Orthodox might merge into the Melkite Catholic Church. That’s purely my speculations.

God bless one and all…

 

[rowlands]

Unless the Orthodox Churches were somehow absorbed into and made subject to the Roman Church it would remain up to the Roman Church to elect any successor to the vacant see for herself, as an autocephalous Church.
Each autocephalous Orthodox Church elects its own patriarch as and when the necessity arises (in the case of ‘dependent’ Orthodox Churches, when the primatial see becomes vacant, a candidate is referred to the Patriarch and Holy Synod of the Church to which it is attached for ratification and ordination/episcopal consecration/enthronement, whatever may be necessary).

 

[notself]

I was always under the impression that Rome left Orthodox when it decided Rome was the Head Bishop.

Can someone provide links to both the Roman and Orthodox POVs?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I was under the impression that any Ordained Priest could be made Pope

Any ordained priest who is a bishop and a Cardinal can be elected Pope.

I do like to note that the Coptic Patriarch is also called Pope.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Ahem, per Canon 1024, any baptised Catholic male may be elected Pope. Priesthood is not a requirement, nor a barrier.

Second, as the election is for the Bishop of Rome (Latin Rite), whether Orthodox prelates would have a vote or not is a big depends. It would depend on how the Orthodox were folded back into the Church.

Currently, I believe only Latin Rite members vote. The patriarchs of the Melkite, Chalcedonean, Syro-Malabar and other Catholic churches don’t help select the Bishop of Rome. Likely this model would be followed and Orthodox prelates would not have a vote.

However, were the Orthodox made part and parcel of the Latin Church, then the Orthodox prelates would likely have a vote.

As the Orthodox came not out of Rome, but out of the Eastern Catholic Churchs, I suspect that the Orthodox will be blended back into their respective Catholic Churches. For example, Greek Orthodox might merge into the Melkite Catholic Church. That’s purely my speculations.

God bless one and all…

Ahem, I beg to differ. The Patriarch of Baghdad was name Cardinal by Pope Benedict XVI and he is Eastern Rite Catholic, a Caldeanean. As a Cardinal, he can take part in the election of a new Pope, and he himself can be selected Pope, if the other Cardinals voted for him.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

Ahem, I beg to differ. The Patriarch of Baghdad was name Cardinal by Pope Benedict XVI and he is Eastern Rite Catholic, a Caldeanean. As a Cardinal, he can take part in the election of a new Pope, and he himself can be selected Pope, if the other Cardinals voted for him.

What a victory that would be for the Middle Eastern Church. Almost like “Shoes of the Fisherman.”

 

[RedSoxFan]

I remember reading that a different rite had a person come in 2nd or 3rd for the voting of the new Pope sometime in the 1900’s. Dang it if I can remember where but I would swear that I read that somewhere. Someone help me out if they can!

 

[paarsurrey]

Just curious as to what would happen if the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox would re-unite, what would happen if an Eastern Orthodox was elected Pope? They don´t have Cardinals in the EO church do they? I know if would be unlikely, but if it happened, being the Bishop of Rome, wouldnt he have to celebrate Holy Mass in the Latin Rite? Just a thought. Hoping it happens in my lifetime, it would be a real witness to healing power of Christ.
Lee

Hi

I think that should not be a problem. Let that nice moment come, such petty matters would be resolved democratically.

Thanks

 

[Irish_Melkite]

I remember reading that a different rite had a person come in 2nd or 3rd for the voting of the new Pope sometime in the 1900’s. Dang it if I can remember where but I would swear that I read that somewhere. Someone help me out if they can!

Fellow Bostonian,

See here

Many years,

Neil

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Any ordained priest who is a bishop and a Cardinal can be elected Pope.

I do like to note that the Coptic Patriarch is also called Pope.

Any Catholic male can be elected Pope (regardless of rite), but for all practical purposes you are correct. Upon acceptance of the Papacy the candidate would receive Holy Orders. However, in this past century there were a few “Palpable” candidates who were not cardinals, but were archbishops of major sees.

And yes, Pope Shenouda III is the current Patriarch of the Orthodox Copts, and the Patriarch of the Catholic Copts is Antonios Naquib, who is not called Pope.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Any ordained priest who is a bishop and a Cardinal can be elected Pope.

I do like to note that the Coptic Patriarch is also called Pope.

As is the EO Patriarch of Alexandria. Only the uniate Copt and Melkites are not.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

As is the EO Patriarch of Alexandria. Only the uniate Copt and Melkites are not.

Using the word uniate on these forums violates the rules, bro.

The EO Patriarch of Alexandria is not a Copt, but a Greek and the Greek See of Alexandria established long after the Coptic.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Using the word uniate on these forums violates the rules, bro.

We went around on this on an erstwhile forum, and I recall a number of uniates defending the term. If they don’t like it, they can let me know. I don’t recall you being among their number.

The EO Patriarch of Alexandria is not a Copt,but a Greek

I’m aware of that. Your point?

Still, the only Patriarchs in Alexandria without the title pope (and Alexandria is where the title originated) are those under Rome.

and the Greek See of Alexandria established long after the Coptic.

There was only one line until Chalcedon. You all sided with us on Chalcedon. Are you saying the anti-Chalcedonians were right?

The EO and OO lines both date from the same time thereafter. Which one (or if both, as can be argued) continues the line before Chalcedon of course is the question.

You have two popes (oops! Patriarchs) in Alexandria (you used to have a third, who never set foot there). Why can’t we?

 

[4horseman]

Any Catholic male can be elected Pope (regardless of rite), but for all practical purposes you are correct. Upon acceptance of the Papacy the candidate would receive Holy Orders. However, in this past century there were a few “Palpable” candidates who were not cardinals, but were archbishops of major sees.

And yes, Pope Shenouda III is the current Patriarch of the Orthodox Copts, and the Patriarch of the Catholic Copts is Antonios Naquib, who is not called Pope.

don’t you have to be a Baptized Male?

http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/Landscapes/video/johnson/baptize1.jpg

 

[Volodymyr]

If the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox unite. They would be like it was before the Schism. and the Eastern Orthodox bishops would also take part in the election process, and elect a new Pope…

Dear friend Emmanuel:

This is completely erroneous. Eastern Chrisitians never tried to have any voice in electing Bishop of Rome, just as Bishop of Rome had no voice in electing Bishop of Konstantinople, Antioch, or other such place. You can read of tumultuous election by people of Rome of their own bishop.

If Catolic church returns to Orthodoxy, then Bishop of rome will be Bishop of rome - doing with Latin church as he wants, but no more and no less. His selection will not involve other Orthodox churches - but he would only send a confession of faith to them to be in communion with other Orthodox bishops.

I too hope that Catolic church returns to church union, but most Orthodox bishops do not think to be treated like Catolic bishop of Antioch. At the conclusion of Vatican I (1869-70), when the Greek Catholic patriarch of Antioch, Gregory II Youssef, advanced to kiss the feet of Pius IX, the pope pushed his foot on the patriarch’s neck and called him, in substance, a “stubborn mule.” During the debates in the council the patriarch had protested that the proposed definitions of papal infallibility were not conformed to tradition - thus provoking the famous response of Pius IX: “I am the tradition!”

 

[RedSoxFan]

Dear friend Emmanuel:

This is completely erroneous. Eastern Chrisitians never tried to have any voice in electing Bishop of Rome, just as Bishop of Rome had no voice in electing Bishop of Konstantinople, Antioch, or other such place. You can read of tumultuous election by people of Rome of their own bishop.

If Catolic church returns to Orthodoxy, then Bishop of rome will be Bishop of rome - doing with Latin church as he wants, but no more and no less. His selection will not involve other Orthodox churches - but he would only send a confession of faith to them to be in communion with other Orthodox bishops.

I too hope that Catolic church returns to church union, but most Orthodox bishops do not think to be treated like Catolic bishop of Antioch. At the conclusion of Vatican I (1869-70), when the Greek Catholic patriarch of Antioch, Gregory II Youssef, advanced to kiss the feet of Pius IX, the pope pushed his foot on the patriarch’s neck and called him, in substance, a “stubborn mule.” During the debates in the council the patriarch had protested that the proposed definitions of papal infallibility were not conformed to tradition - thus provoking the famous response of Pius IX: “I am the tradition!”

Heck I’m just glad that says 1869-1870 instead of 2007. Events like this happen but they are pretty rare considering how passionate people become over religion.

 

[Hesychios]

Heck I’m just glad that says 1869-1870 instead of 2007. Events like this happen but they are pretty rare considering how passionate people become over religion.

Pio Nonno was an obstinate bully at the Council. It was not a real council in the sense that any bishop could debate any other and collectively hammer out the “mind of the church”. Pius IX (through his operative committees and deputations) dictated everything: the agenda, who may speak, first drafts and the final rewrites. Amendment suggestions were taken in writing and handled off the floor for possible modification and consideration or rejection. The final drafts differed from the texts that were voted on.

It (Vatican I) was a rubber stamp to the bishop of Romes wishes and goals.

This is why so many of the fathers walked out. Many were afraid of being arrested and left in secret for the French lines without giving notice.

The incident of the abuse reported by the Melkite Patriarch was not unique to him, but he had sufficient independence to speak openly and publicly about it afterward. The Melkite church was enraged across the board, and the Melkites ever after opposed the cause of Pius’ canonization, it took 100 years to get him beatified over their objections.

Today, some prominent Melkite bishops (not so much in the diaspora, which is controlled by the Vatican, but the Patriarchate in Syria and Lebanon) will refer to Vatican I as a pseudo-Council, not ecumenical. Many do not feel bound to it’s decrees.

I know a lot of Roman Catholics have this idea that Melkites are just being difficult, but they had a unique inside look at the Council, sufficient independence at the time that they could not be muzzled afterward and the collective memory of an offended church community.

Michael