If contraception is intrinsically evil...

[WingsOfEagles]

Is this question addressed to me?

Just as in my scenarios, both actions are contraceptive, so it would be true that murder and killing in self-defense would be killing. What differs is the context and the players involved.

In murder, you are morally culpable. If you accidentally kill an attacker while defending yourself, you are not morally culpable. But in both situations, it is unfortunately true that you killed someone.

In contracepted sexual relations, you are morally culpable. In the use of contraceptives after rape, you are not morally culpable. But in both situations, it is unfortunately true that you used contraceptives.

More of a rhetorical question, not aimed directly at you. I was more stating that this example is much like the other one you gave.

 

[mommamaree]

More of a rhetorical question, not aimed directly at you. I was more stating that this example is much like the other one you gave.

Gotcha! I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to answer or not. Good example, though.

 

[LJN21]

Fair enough.

Okay, so I looked up the actual definition of rape on an online dictionary. I had always been educated that rape is not about sex, it is about power. My mother, MIL, sister, SIL, cousin, and some female friends have all been the victims of either rape or sexual assault of some kind. When they are willing to be open about it, they say it is not about sex, but is about violence and power. And that their attacker used his sexual parts as a weapon in a violent assault.

Oh I agree, I think that is very likely why things are phrased the way the are in the CCC. Its out of a charity for victims where the nitty gritty of the issue is not necessary or appropriate.

Perhaps this is a way that modern women are struggling to cope with the aftermath of rapes and sexual assaults, by saying it is not a form of sexual intercourse? Despite the definition in the dictionary being that it is a “forcible form of sexual intercourse”? That at least makes some sense to me. Maybe it is their way of separating their rape from their experience of consensual sexual acts?

Exactly, because of the trauma of a rape, many women still have trouble with loving consensual sex after that experience.

Still, I think that the Church does not contradict herself at all when allowing for the use of contraceptives as part of treatment after rape. Rape is an injustice. The Church is allowing for the restoration of justice by allowing contraception, even when it is otherwise prohibited.

If the Church ever goes “well X is INTRINSICALLY EVIL … except in this case…” she is contradicting herself. Which by definition she can’t do. So, either whoever is pushing this policy is wrong, or it’s not Contraception through some form the church has not explained yet, Contraception has been declared Intrinsically Evil…I’m sure this isn’t the last we’ve heard from her on this subject.

 

[LJN21]

Another example. You kill someone rather than be killed. You killed in self defense. Does this mean that you did not kill anyone?

Killing is not an immoral action, it is a natural evil but not an intrinsic evil. Murder is an intrinsic evil.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

If the Church ever goes “well X is INTRINSICALLY EVIL … except in this case…” she is contradicting herself. Which by definition she can’t do. So, either whoever is pushing this policy is wrong, or it’s not Contraception through some form the church has not explained yet, Contraception has been declared Intrinsically Evil…I’m sure this isn’t the last we’ve heard from her on this subject.

Is contraception intrinsically evil, or is it not being open to life in a healthy marriage? NFP with a contraceptive mindset is also immoral. I think the Church teaching is more that a married couple is under obligation to be open to life as part of the unity that occurs. A rape victim is under no such obligation.

 

[Debora123]

If the Church ever goes “well X is INTRINSICALLY EVIL … except in this case…” she is contradicting herself. Which by definition she can’t do. So, either whoever is pushing this policy is wrong, or it’s not Contraception through some form the church has not explained yet, Contraception has been declared Intrinsically Evil…I’m sure this isn’t the last we’ve heard from her on this subject.

Contraception is intrinsically evil when used in the marital embrace.

There is no contradiction.

 

[Debora123]

Is contraception intrinsically evil, or is it not being open to life in a healthy marriage? NFP with a contraceptive mindset is also immoral. I think the Church teaching is more that a married couple is under obligation to be open to life as part of the unity that occurs. A rape victim is under no such obligation.

Yes.

 

[LJN21]

Is contraception intrinsically evil, or is it not being open to life in a healthy marriage?

Contraception intrinsically evil. All of the ECF and current teaching agree on this fact.

NFP with a contraceptive mindset is also immoral. I think the Church teaching is more that a married couple is under obligation to be open to life as part of the unity that occurs.

Actually you will NOT find the idea of the “contraceptive mentality” in any official Church teaching. Go look at the documents. As far as I have been able to tell that idea is 100+ years the junior of the idea of period abstinence (NFP).

crisismagazine.com/2011/nfp-the-myth-of-the-%E2%80%9Ccontraceptive-mentality%E2%80%9D

A rape victim is under no such obligation.

She is under no such obligation to be subject to her attacker.

 

[LJN21]

Contraception is intrinsically evil when used in the marital embrace.

There is no contradiction.

That distinction (only inside marriage) is not made by the Church. Go look in all of the documents… not just the CCC.

Edit: Have already posted relevant Summa theology supporting that frustrating procreation even while fornicating is immoral.

 

[Debora123]

That distinction (only inside marriage) is not made by the Church. Go look in all of the documents… not just the CCC.

It seems like every time contraception is mentioned, it is mentioned in the context of a marriage in one way or another. Never in the context of fornication.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

That distinction (only inside marriage) is not made by the Church. Go look in all of the documents… not just the CCC.

Well, they don’t need to address it outside of marriage because people aren’t supposed to be fornicating.

 

[Debora123]

Well, they don’t need to address it outside of marriage because people aren’t supposed to be fornicating.

Exactly.

 

[LJN21]

It seems like every time contraception is mentioned, it is mentioned in the context of a marriage in one way or another. Never in the context of fornication.

The Summa talks about it. I already posted those bits.

 

[LJN21]

Well, they don’t need to address it outside of marriage because people aren’t supposed to be fornicating.

Does a lack of address in the CCC automatically mean its not still immoral?

 

[Debora123]

The Summa talks about it. I already posted those bits.

I don’t recall reading anything you posted that said fornication is also ordered towards procreation.

Is The Summa an official Church doctrine? I’d feel better looking at Humanae Vitae and the ccc.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Fornication in and of itself is a mortal sin. I think at that point it probably is grey area if it is truly any worse to use contraception on top of it. It could be argued that it makes the act even more selfish and all about self-gratification.

In the case of rape, the contraception is protecting the victim from her attacker. She is not expected to be open to life. She certainly isn’t using contraception so that she can have pleasure without consequence.

 

[Debora123]

Does a lack of address in the CCC automatically mean its not still immoral?

It’s not a “lack of address” though. It IS addressed specifically in regards to marriage. Every time.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

It’s not a “lack of address” though. It IS addressed specifically in regards to marriage. Every time.

Exactly. I’m not convinced fornication with/without birth control is any different. Both are mortal sins.

Certain methods of birth control might be worse. For example, hormonal birth control that could abort a fertilized egg. This is why even a rape victim is supposed to be tested for pregnancy/ovulation first before Plan B is administered.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

I’m sorry, but I have to agree with LJN21.

Contraception is INTRINSICALLY evil. In all circumstances. We’re trying to spin it so that contraception after rape isn’t contraception-but it is. It prevents conception.

The Summa is not official Church teaching but since the Church hasn’t officially said anything the Summa is an excellent resource to use. Logically, Aquinas has shown us that contraception after rape is still contraception, and still a sin.

I’m not going to personally condemn anybody for it, but it is what it is.

 

[Debora123]

Fornication in and of itself is a mortal sin. I think at that point it probably is grey area if it is truly any worse to use contraception on top of it. It could be argued that it makes the act even more selfish and all about self-gratification.

Honestly, I think the lack of regard in making the other person a mother/father when they aren’t married is also selfish. Just as it is also selfish to create a baby when you’re not in a marital relationship to bring the baby into.

Fornication is just wrong and selfish all around. It’s selfish when you’re doing it with contraception just for pleasure, but it would also be selfish to not care whether or not you make your partner a parent out of wedlock, and is also selfish to make a baby when the baby isn’t going to have a mother and father who are married. In the end, it’s just a moot point, because fornication is selfish and wrong any way you slice it up.