If contraception is intrinsically evil...

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This line of thinking has always disturbed me. If you are pregnant and it isn’t your fault you can get help. If you were selfish enough to enjoy sex with someone you love then you deserve whatever life-altering consequences you get. Eek it’s messed up.
Huh??

Any pregnant person “can get help.” :confused:

There are tons and tons of Catholic crisis pregnancy centers that help pregnant women… regardless of how they got pregnant or whose fault it was.

I’m not sure where you got that idea??
 
The morning after pill works first by preventing fertilization from taking place.

The USCCB website says it’s morally permissible for a rape victim to take the morning after pill after tests have been taken to determine that no fertilization has occurred yet.
To be honest, I think this does contradict the general position of the Catholic Church with regard to contraception in general.

I think the Catholic Church has adopted this particular position either out of genuine concern for female rape victims, or because (and this is the more cynical part of me speaking) they know its in their interest to pretend to be concerned about female rape victims who don’t want to carry their rapists child.

But its possible that I am being too cynical:shrug:
 
This line of thinking has always disturbed me. If you are** pregnant** and it isn’t your fault you can get help. If you were selfish enough to enjoy sex with someone you love then you deserve whatever life-altering consequences you get. Eek it’s messed up.
Just to clarify, that isn’t the thought-process here at all. The thought-process is that if you are not yet pregnant, but have the chance of becoming so if your ovulation is not delayed, then it is permissable to prevent one from becoming pregnant. There is a huge difference.
 
This line of thinking has always disturbed me. If you are pregnant and it isn’t your fault you can get help. If you were selfish enough to enjoy sex with someone you love then you deserve whatever life-altering consequences you get. Eek it’s messed up.
Well, I think that is does boil down to that, sort of. If you are raped, then it stands to reason that, if conception has not yet occurred, you have the right to rid your body of the unwelcomed fluid that the rapist depoisted. From my point of view, and what teh Church says about sex and sexuality, I don’t think anyone can rightly say that rape is a sex-act, per se.

However, if conception HAS occurred, you can’t then view the baby as though it is your attacker. The baby is just as innocent a victim as the woman who was raped. You can’t punish the baby for the crime of the father.

On the other hand, if a couple chooses to have sex, then they should accept the consequneces of sex. Sex, by its very nature, is for BOTH unification AND procreation. To willfully reject one or both aspects distorts the act. Since pregnancy is a natural consequence of sex, people need to come to terms with the fact that sex can lead to pregnancy and then decide whether they want to have sex, knowing that they may conceive a child.
 
The morning after pill works first by preventing fertilization from taking place.

The USCCB website says it’s morally permissible for a rape victim to take the morning after pill after tests have been taken to determine that no fertilization has occurred yet.
It’s a slippery slope. But what you have to remember is that the USCCB is not the Catholic Church. The Vatican is the Catholic Church. What Rome says goes. I would look to what the Church itself defines as opposed to what the USCCB says.
 
It’s a slippery slope. But what you have to remember is that the USCCB is not the Catholic Church. The Vatican is the Catholic Church. What Rome says goes. I would look to what the Church itself defines as opposed to what the USCCB says.
USCCB is in line with Church teaching.
 
He goes through this question.
Was this also posted back when it was said that nuns in Africa were being allowed this very thing? (I may be confusing with another forum.) I recommend eveyone read this great article as well…if for no other reason that to check if I am taking anything out of context:

November 2007. The “morning-after” pill, also known as “Plan B,” is often provided in hospital emergency rooms to women who have been sexually assaulted. It is typically used within 72 hours of the rape, and appears to prevent pregnancy in one of two ways. First, it can prevent ovulation …

Th[e] second mechanism of action involves altering the lining of the uterus so it becomes less hospitable to the arrival of an embryo from the fallopian tube. In other words, if an egg has already been released from the ovary, and it has been successfully fertilized, the morning-after pill may be able to prevent that arriving embryo from implanting into the uterine wall…

Significant ethical concerns are raised by this second mechanism, namely that “emergency contraception” may actually work as “emergency abortion” as well…

Some have argued that it may be immoral for Catholics to provide any contraceptive measures at all to a woman who has been raped. **Such a view is incorrect, however, because a woman who has been sexually assaulted is clearly entitled to protect herself from the attacker’s sperm. The Church teaches that rape is not a unitive act that requires openness to procreation. It is rather an act of violence against another person, and the woman is allowed to take steps to prevent the possible fertilization **of her own egg(s). It is permissible, then, for Catholic hospitals to provide their patients with morning-after pills if the following four conditions are met:

1.The woman is not already pregnant from prior, freely-chosen sexual activity.
2.The woman has been sexually assaulted.
3.The woman has not yet ovulated (i.e. has not released an egg from her ovary into the fallopian tube where it could be fertilized by the attacker’s sperm).
4.The morning-after pill can reasonably be expected to prevent her from ovulating.

When a woman arrives to an emergency room following a sexual assault, a simple urine test for leutinizing hormone (LH) can be used to gain information about whether she is ovulating. If it is determined that her LH levels have spiked and she is ovulating, the morning-after pill will not be able to block the egg’s release from her ovary. If it were to be administered under these circumstances, the morning-after pill might function to prevent the implantation of any newly conceived embryo(s), which would be the moral equivalent of an abortion. Under these conditions, therefore, the morning-after pill should not be administered.

The young boy or girl conceived through sexual assault is an innocent bystander, and he or she should never become a “second victim” of rape through chemical abortion. Women who conceive a child after sexual assault deserve full and loving support throughout and following their pregnancy. In follow-up studies where children are born from sexual assault, both mother and child frequently express satisfaction at not having adverted to the deadly answer of abortion…

(emphasis and “Th[e]” mine)
*Rev. Tadeusz Pacholczyk, Ph.D. earned his doctorate in neuroscience from Yale and did post-doctoral work at Harvard. He is a priest of the diocese of Fall River, MA, and serves as the Director of Education at The National Catholic Bioethics Center in Philadelphia. See www.ncbcenter.org *
 
To be honest, I think this does contradict the general position of the Catholic Church with regard to contraception in general.

I think the Catholic Church has adopted this particular position either out of genuine concern for female rape victims, or because (and this is the more cynical part of me speaking) they know its in their interest to pretend to be concerned about female rape victims who don’t want to carry their rapists child.

But its possible that I am being too cynical:shrug:
Yeah, that was definitely kind of uncharitable… to insinuate that the Church doesn’t care about pregnant rape victims. 😦

The Church does care about rape victims, as She cares about everyone… EVERYONE, including the innocent person who may have been conceived as a result of rape.

As I said earlier, the Church has many crisis pregnancy centers that help pregnant women and their unborn babies.
 
The Magisterium has condemned contraception, whether in marriage or outside of marriage. See Casti Connubii n. 55, 56. Also, Catholic hospitals are forbidden from dispensing contraception, even if the physician and patient are non-Catholic and the patient is unmarried.

The Magisterium teaches that all knowingly chosen acts are subject to the moral law.

“Freedom makes man a moral subject. When he acts deliberately, man is, so to speak, the father of his acts. Human acts, that is, acts that are freely chosen in consequence of a judgment of conscience, can be morally evaluated. They are either good or evil.” (CCC, n. 1749)

“no human act is morally indifferent to one’s conscience or before God” (Congregation for Catholic Education)

Therefore, there are no morally-neutral acts.

In Catholic moral theology, an act (or ‘human act’) is a choice of the free will based on knowledge in the intellect. Every such knowingly chosen act is either good or evil. Every knowingly chosen act has three fonts of morality. Every act with three good fonts is moral; it is at least morally permissible without sin. Every act with one or more bad fonts is immoral; it is at least objectively a sin before God.
Then I wonder if it was a moral or immoral act when I chose to have Broccoli Cheddar soup for lunch today?😛
 
No,if your pregnant they can’t do anything. They can only attempt to delay ovulation which naturally be before you are pregnant.
Sorry, I was on the phone with my mom when I typed that so it didn’t come out like I’d hoped.

If you are raped and you haven’t ovulated you can prevent pregnancy.

But if you got yourself in to this mess you should accept your punishment.

Still the same line of thinking and it still disturbs me.
 
The Magisterium has condemned contraception, whether in marriage or outside of marriage. See Casti Connubii n. 55, 56. Also, Catholic hospitals are forbidden from dispensing contraception, even if the physician and patient are non-Catholic and the patient is unmarried.

**The Magisterium teaches that all knowingly chosen acts are subject to the moral law.

“Freedom makes man a moral subject. When he acts deliberately, man is, so to speak, the father of his acts. Human acts, that is, acts that are freely chosen in consequence of a judgment of conscience, can be morally evaluated. They are either good or evil.” (CCC, n. 1749)**“no human act is morally indifferent to one’s conscience or before God” (Congregation for Catholic Education)

Therefore, there are no morally-neutral acts.

In Catholic moral theology, an act (or ‘human act’) is a choice of the free will based on knowledge in the intellect. Every such knowingly chosen act is either good or evil. Every knowingly chosen act has three fonts of morality. Every act with three good fonts is moral; it is at least morally permissible without sin. Every act with one or more bad fonts is immoral; it is at least objectively a sin before God.
Then why do you advocate positions Ron that would strip women in particular of their freedom?

Here are some quotes from your own website to illustrate my point:

-God did not give women a place, in the Church, the family, or society, to teach men or to have authority over men.
-Women should not have any kind of teaching role over adult men. Women should not have any kind of leadership role over adult men.
-Women should not be political leaders. In politics, a woman should not be President or Vice President or Senator or Representative or Governor or a State legislator. A woman should not have any elected or appointed political position with authority over men, because it is contrary to the teaching of Scripture. A woman should not be Judge in any court of law, because courts have authority over men.
-In general, women should not be law enforcement officers
-Women sometimes say that marriage is a “50-50 partnership,” but such is not the teaching of Christ. A woman who seeks power over her husband, who fights with him for control of the family, will ruin her marriage and her family. A wife sins against God if she rejects her husband’s authority over her or if she seeks to have authority over him.
-It is shameful in God’s eyes for a woman to have any such role of leadership or teaching at holy Mass and at any time in the Sanctuary.

Link to source: catholicplanet.com/women/roles.htm

As I have said before Conte, if these ideas were actually implemented by our society, they would reduce women to the status of chattel. All but eliminating women’s role as moral agents in their own right.
 
Prostitution is consensual, so, if contracepted, the act of contracepting is sinful, as well as the prostitution. There may be instances in prostitution where the “prostitute” is being raped, however, or being forced into prostitution (which I believe is still rape). Can we know which is which and whose intent is against a rape and whose is against conception during consentual sex?

(How do you spell that by the way? Consent to sex…consentual, or consensual, or other?) :confused:
Good point.
Would it be morally licit for modern day sex-slaves to use birth control such as the Pill because they don’t want to become pregnant with their rapists child (this is assuming that they have any choice in the matter)?
 
Good point.
Would it be morally licit for modern day sex-slaves to use birth control such as the Pill because they don’t want to become pregnant with their rapists child (this is assuming that they have any choice in the matter)?
I see “sex-slaves” the same as rape victims. I think if the conditions were present (read the article in post 87 and the quotes I pulled in 88) then a “sex-slave” who is a victim of rape could use that pill. It must be such that ovulation is prevented though…it would not be licit to prevent implantation of an already-fertilized zygote.
 
Good point.
Would it be morally licit for modern day sex-slaves to use birth control such as the Pill because they don’t want to become pregnant with their rapists child (this is assuming that they have any choice in the matter)?
I would say that in the case of a sex slave a non abortifacient contraceptive is probably acceptable. Here I go with the definition that a sex slave is an individual that has zero choice in determining what happens to her, in that case it is just repetitive rape and it is not intercourse.
 
I don’t know the answer to your question, AngryAtheist, but I can see into your brain and I know that we’re about 3 posts away from redifining marriage as sex slavery.
 
How long have you been married?

Lol I told my husband once to come on here for fun and he absolutely will not. I guess I can’t blame him. While I’ve learned a lot here, it definitely did hurt my faith for probably the first year of me using it. It took a while for me to come around and be able to take in the good and leave out the bad from these forums. Because unfortunately, there is a lot of bad.
It helps to have low expectations going in:shrug:
 
The Magisterium has condemned contraception, whether in marriage or outside of marriage. See Casti Connubii n. 55, 56. …
Ron, I have to point out that those passages of Casti Connubii manifestly refer to “the nuptual union”, “the conjugal act”. Under no sane stretch of the imagination can rape be considered a conjugal act or a nuptual union. Your objection is misplaced on this point.
 
Ron, I have to point out that those passages of Casti Connubii manifestly refer to “the nuptual union”, “the conjugal act”. Under no sane stretch of the imagination can rape be considered a conjugal act or a nuptual union. Your objection is misplaced on this point.
I think that Ron was referring to unmarried people that choose to have sex and not to the case of rape. I have the impression that he was in disagreement with a poster that was putting rape and non-conjugal sex in the same category.
 
I don’t know the answer to your question, AngryAtheist, but I can see into your brain and I know that we’re about 3 posts away from redifining marriage as sex slavery.
Not even close to what I was thinking.

You had me worried for a moment there.
Just imagine how little privacy people would have if people on Message Boards were telepathic;)
 
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