If every Christian group denied the title "Christian" to another

[paarsurrey]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4625236&postcount=165
What is the difference between Mormons and Islam?

Originally Posted by majick275:
that you are aligned with an ahmadi muslim certainly speaks volumes
“aligned with?”

Originally posted by dainaiad:
Because he recognizes the oddity of all these different groups who reserve the title to themselves, and kick each other out of the ‘club?’

Indeed, it’s delicious. If every Christian group who denied the title “Christian” to another were correct, then there would indeed be no Christians on the planet.

Hi

I think dainaiad is logical in saying If every Christian group who denied the title “Christian” to another were correct, then **there would indeed be no Christians on the planet.

Since I am for unity of all 32000+ denominations of Christianity into one United Christendom, I think to start with every Christian denomination should at least respect other fellow Christians to make a room for others to remain within the Christianity at least.

Let it be the first step towards Christian Unity. The Catholics should resolve not to throw out from the fold of Christianity other denominations be they Protestants, Mormons or JWs etc; and similarly the Protestants should not throw out Catholics and others from the same.

It should not be difficult, I think.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishan

Thanks**

 

[LDNCatholic]

The groups you mention are too radically different. We recognise Protestants as Christian paarsurrey, however there are doctrinal differences which you do not understand that prohibit unity.

 

[ralphinal]

In order to be Christian, a group must teach that Jesus is God. That rules the JWs out. Also, they must accept the classic Trinity. That rules the Mormons out. That said, Mormons are closer than JWs to the traditional thought. There are other, smaller groups that are not Christian as well.

That said, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholics are all Christians. However, I will ask when was the last time you heard of a Christian physically attacking another group because they are not the same type of Christian? The same question could be asked of Muslims that you asked of us.

 

[dianaiad]

In order to be Christian, a group must teach that Jesus is God. That rules the JWs out. Also, they must accept the classic Trinity. That rules the Mormons out. That said, Mormons are closer than JWs to the traditional thought. There are other, smaller groups that are not Christian as well.

That said, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholics are all Christians. However, I will ask when was the last time you heard of a Christian physically attacking another group because they are not the same type of Christian? The same question could be asked of Muslims that you asked of us.

How far do you want to go back, for the physical ones?

My lifetime? Sure…happened to me several times. Happened to my daughter less than ten years ago…and happened to her first when she was a whole twelve years old. She had the nerve to go to a “Sign of the Fish” book store wearing her CTR ring, to get a 'Shakespeare Bible" (a KJV bible cross referenced to Shakespeare’s plays, for a ‘bible as literature’ class).

oops. If weren’t for a local Baptist minister, who saw the whole thing and intervened, there would have been some major violence occurring all right; NOBODY pushes my kid out of a store yelling “Mormons aren’t Christians and don’t belong in a Christian store!!!”

Not without this Mormon mother getting a little verbally violent on her own hook, they don’t.

…and it is well within written history that Catholics decided that Protestants were not Christian. Certainly it is very recent that Protestants have denied that Catholics are not. (I’ll bet I’m safe in saying that the last time that happened was after I started typing this…)

As well, I think a really good case can be made that the wholesale armed removal of the women and children from the FLDS compound in Texas was on account of religion.Given that this was done by men in kevlar armor holding automatic machine guns with dogs in tow, I think that qualifies as ‘violent.’

The thing that tickles me is that the appeals court came right out and SAID so, when it slapped the Texas Child Protective Services over the thing.

That particular ruling was interesting reading.

The TCPS should never have used Baptist church buses to move the kids, y’know?

Sorry, went away for a minute----I’m back now.

The thing is, it is not a good idea to sit back and think 'this can’t happen nowadays" or “No Christian would do this NOW…” Because it can. People (even “Christians”) have. And will. And do…and the only way to prevent it is to admit that it can happen–and make certain that it does not.

 

[That_one_guy]

Having been raised Mormon, I, too, was baffled when other kids said I wasn’t Christian. My best friend was a Seventh Day Adventist. When his mother found out I came from a Mormon family we weren’t allowed to play together. I decided to call myself Wiccan at the age of 14. I waffled back and forth through every new age and occult belief for years. Studying hinduism (Shiva and Ganesha and Parvati are my favorites in this complicated religion). Eventually I decided that it was an arrogant statement for anyone to assert that they and they alone had the monopoly on God.

I converted to Catholicism at 40.I am now 45. I choose Catholicism. I obey its tenets and I believe in the magisterium and infallibility.(Because I understand it)

I an On a Greek Orthodox Forum.As well as a few generic Christian ones.And a few Catholic ones.

In my mind, we are all Christians. It is like the blue jean theory. Some folks wear wranglers, some wear Vidal Sasoon, or Bugle Boy, Jnco, Old Navy, Dickies,…whatever.We are all wearing blue jeans.

The Roman Catholics just happen to be Levi’s,…the original.

 

[cascherman]

They can be called Christians, but we cannot be a part of the same Church without being in agreeance.

To create a united Christendom without holding to the Truth would be the end of Christendom. Relative truth would rule and any semblence of actual Truth would be phased out.

 

[ralphinal]

How far do you want to go back, for the physical ones?

My lifetime? Sure…happened to me several times. Happened to my daughter less than ten years ago…and happened to her first when she was a whole twelve years old. She had the nerve to go to a “Sign of the Fish” book store wearing her CTR ring, to get a 'Shakespeare Bible" (a KJV bible cross referenced to Shakespeare’s plays, for a ‘bible as literature’ class).

oops. If weren’t for a local Baptist minister, who saw the whole thing and intervened, there would have been some major violence occurring all right; NOBODY pushes my kid out of a store yelling “Mormons aren’t Christians and don’t belong in a Christian store!!!”

that is one of the reasons that I do not go to Christian book stores. They tend to not be Christian and poor book stores. that same one that she had a problem with probably has Catholic books in the occult section.

Not without this Mormon mother getting a little verbally violent on her own hook, they don’t.

Understandable.

…and it is well within written history that Catholics decided that Protestants were not Christian. Certainly it is very recent that Protestants have denied that Catholics are not. (I’ll bet I’m safe in saying that the last time that happened was after I started typing this…)

Actually, the Catholic Church considered them heretical but still Christian. The claim that Catholics are not Christian was not part of the early Protestan mantra, but it was adopted soon enough.

As well, I think a really good case can be made that the wholesale armed removal of the women and children from the FLDS compound in Texas was on account of religion.Given that this was done by men in kevlar armor holding automatic machine guns with dogs in tow, I think that qualifies as ‘violent.’

The thing that tickles me is that the appeals court came right out and SAID so, when it slapped the Texas Child Protective Services over the thing.

I think that there was more to it, but religion was a major factor

That particular ruling was interesting reading.

The TCPS should never have used Baptist church buses to move the kids, y’know?

Sorry, went away for a minute----I’m back now.

I agree.

The thing is, it is not a good idea to sit back and think 'this can’t happen nowadays" or “No Christian would do this NOW…” Because it can. People (even “Christians”) have. And will. And do…and the only way to prevent it is to admit that it can happen–and make certain that it does not.

I agree.

AS far as the attacks go, what I was refering to is an organized faith calling for physical attacks on another group, not individuals or the state doing it.

I notice that you avoid the issue that Mormans do not consider Catholics to be true Christians…

 

[dianaiad]

that is one of the reasons that I do not go to Christian book stores. They tend to not be Christian and poor book stores. that same one that she had a problem with probably has Catholic books in the occult section…

(grin) the “no true Christian” idea?

Actually, the Catholic Church considered them heretical but still Christian. The claim that Catholics are not Christian was not part of the early Protestan mantra, but it was adopted soon enough.

I think that there was more to it, but religion was a major factor

I agree.

I agree.

AS far as the attacks go, what I was refering to is an organized faith calling for physical attacks on another group, not individuals or the state doing it.

I notice that you avoid the issue that Mormans do not consider Catholics to be true Christians…

Well, that’s a little like avoiding discussing my second husband. Since I don’t HAVE a second husband, there is nothing to avoid.

Y’see, we absolutely consider Catholics to be Christians. What else would they be?

Now, a few of the more loudmouthed of our early leaders had some nasty things to say about creeds and such, and likened the RCC to the 'whore of all the earth," but those guys calmed down soon enough. It’s been a century and a half or so since they embarrassed themselves in that manner.

But as far as I know, even they never denied Catholics the title ‘Christian.’

 

[RebeccaJ]

But as far as I know, even they never denied Catholics the title [apostate] ‘Christian.’

 

[paarsurrey]

They can be called Christians, but we cannot be a part of the same Church without being in agreeance.

To create a united Christendom without holding to the Truth would be the end of Christendom. Relative truth would rule and any semblence of actual Truth would be phased out.

Hi

I don’t mean a political compromise; but I am sure ways could be found to unite on truth. Say, to get convinced not to throw others out of Christianity, the first step towards unity, is only to provide the needed respect to others without any compromise on truth.

With good logic and reasoning, I am sure, that the Christians could unite on Truth, the sooner the better and for sure it won’t be the end of Christianity rather it will establish the truthful Christianity and it would flourish.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[kellie]

Hi

I don’t mean a political compromise; but I am sure ways could be found to unite on truth. Say, to get convinced not to throw others out of Christianity, the first step towards unity, is only to provide the needed respect to others without any compromise on truth.

With good logic and reasoning, I am sure, that the Christians could unite on Truth, the sooner the better and for sure it won’t be the end of Christianity rather it will establish the truthful Christianity and it would flourish.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

Catholics believe the Truth to be Jesus IS God.

Mormons or JWs dont believe that (Sorry I cant remember which one)

This very sentence - Jesus IS God - has been argued over and over again, so tell me paarsurrey how we would ever be united on Truth

 

[KingAlfred]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4625236&postcount=165
What is the difference between Mormons and Islam?

Hi

I think dainaiad is logical in saying If every Christian group who denied the title “Christian” to another were correct, then **there would indeed be no Christians on the planet.

Since I am for unity of all 32000+ denominations of Christianity into one United Christendom, I think to start with every Christian denomination should at least respect** other fellow Christians to make a room for others to remain within the Christianity at least.

Let it be the first step towards Christian Unity. The Catholics should resolve not to throw out from the fold of Christianity other denominations be they Protestants, Mormons or JWs etc; and similarly the Protestants should not throw out Catholics and others from the same.

It should not be difficult, I think.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishan

Thanks

But there are limits to Christian ‘tolerance’. I could never accept the teachings or behaviors of religious leaders such Warren Jeffs, for example. Or what about these Westboro fanatics? No way. That’s not Christianity. For me, it’s best to stay Catholic, and seek refuge in the Church, exclusively.

 

[ralphinal]

(grin) the “no true Christian” idea?

Well, that’s a little like avoiding discussing my second husband. Since I don’t HAVE a second husband, there is nothing to avoid.

Y’see, we absolutely consider Catholics to be Christians. What else would they be?

Now, a few of the more loudmouthed of our early leaders had some nasty things to say about creeds and such, and likened the RCC to the 'whore of all the earth," but those guys calmed down soon enough. It’s been a century and a half or so since they embarrassed themselves in that manner.

But as far as I know, even they never denied Catholics the title ‘Christian.’

Point taken about not answering.

Does the LDS church not teach that the Catholic Church (and others) are apostate?

 

[dianaiad]

(regarding the FLDS compound raid in Texas) I think that there was more to it, but religion was a major factor

Not a whole LOT more to it; it was those Baptist buses that gave it away.

AS far as the attacks go, what I was refering to is an organized faith calling for physical attacks on another group, not individuals or the state doing it.

I notice that you avoid the issue that Mormans do not consider Catholics to be true Christians…

You mean like Pope Innocent III’s folks with the Albegenses?

Or Henry the 8th’s folks with the Catholics?

Like that?

By the way, how is a complete denial that we consider Catholics to be less than Christian, and a demand that the accuser claiming to quote us as saying that provide the quote an avoidance of the issue?

I personally would call that taking it straight on, m’self.

'course, we are again dealing with the definition of “Christian.”

 

[dianaiad]

Catholics believe the Truth to be Jesus IS God.

Mormons or JWs dont believe that (Sorry I cant remember which one)

This very sentence - Jesus IS God - has been argued over and over again, so tell me paarsurrey how we would ever be united on Truth

That would be the JW’s.

Who dislike Mormons very much, by the way.

 

[BartBurk]

That would be the JW’s.

Who dislike Mormons very much, by the way.

Mormons believe Jesus is God. They just don’t accept the idea that he is eternally begotten of the Father and the one eternal God. The strange part of this is the Book of Mormon specifically says the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one eternal God. Mormons have to go through all kinds of gyrations to reconcile the later teachings of Joseph Smith regarding the Godhead with the teachings of the Book of Mormon. It is interesting the Community of Christ, which also uses the Book of Mormon, says it is Trinitarian:

cofchrist.org/ourfaith/faith-beliefs.asp

If the Mormons limited their teaching to the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants prior to 1840 they would be Trinitarian. Joseph Smith went off the deep end with his teachings once he fully implemented polygamy.

 

[dianaiad]

But there are limits to Christian ‘tolerance’. I could never accept the teachings or behaviors of religious leaders such Warren Jeffs, for example. Or what about these Westboro fanatics? No way. That’s not Christianity. For me, it’s best to stay Catholic, and seek refuge in the Church, exclusively.

Well, Jeffs is in jail and likely to stay there for a good long time. It looks as if nobody puts up with his behavior, nor do we have to. As for the Westboro “Hinckley is in Hell” ? (seen at Pres. Hinckley’s funeral in protest of his support of gays)

hee…Man, I would have loved to see that particular group head to head with the gays in San Francisco after Proposition 8 passed.

Or perhaps not…“messy” might be too mild a word.

 

[zaffiroborant]

(grin) the “no true Christian” idea?

But as far as I know, even they never denied Catholics the title ‘Christian.’

Though they have said that Catholics and other traditional Christians are one class of two classes of atheists.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Who do you think gets to define “Christian”?

Can anyone make up their own definition, or is there a more objective method?

 

[fireforgedxtian]

If the mood is ecumenical, then adherence to the Nicene Creed is good general gauge of one’s Christianity.