If feasts of Corpus Christi or Sacred Heart fall on June 24

[ag_vn]

Hello. I would like to ask what happens if the feasts of Corpus Christi or Sacred Heart fall on June 24, when is the Nativity of St. John the Baptist. Which feast is celebrated then?

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

In the US, the feast of Corpus Christi will be celebrated June 10(transferred from the 7th)

the feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus will be celebrated June 15,

Neither would be celebrated on the 24.

If your asking if they did…? The more important feast would be celebrated then… so Sacred Heart or Corpus Christi would take precedence, and NJB would be moved to the next day.

 

[ChadS]

In the US, the feast of Corpus Christi will be celebrated June 10(transferred from the 7th)

the feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus will be celebrated June 15,

Neither would be celebrated on the 24.

If your asking if they did…? The more important feast would be celebrated then… so Sacred Heart or Corpus Christi would take precedence, and NJB would be moved to the next day.

Is it possible for those feasts to fall that late? I suppose it is if they are based upon when Easter is. However, I don’t thing the Nativity of St. John the Baptist would be transferred to the next day. It would probably be skipped over that year. I’m sure there are plenty of saints feast days that get skipped over for a year and no memorial masses are said when their day falls on a Sunday.

ChadS

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

Is it possible for those feasts to fall that late? I suppose it is if they are based upon when Easter is. However, I don’t think the Nativity of St. John the Baptist would be transferred to the next day. It would probably be skipped over that year. I’m sure there are plenty of saints feast days that get skipped over for a year and no memorial masses are said when their day falls on a Sunday.

ChadS

I’m sure it’s possible for them to fall that late due to Easter.

The thing is, the Nativity of St. John the Baptist is a solemnity, which is the category if highest importance of all holy days. It basically trumps all other lower categorized holy days, including feasts and memorials.

 

[MarkThompson]

Is it possible for those feasts to fall that late?

Yes. June 24 (June 27, in the United States, due to transfer to subsequent Sunday) is the last possible date for Corpus Christi, while the Sacred Heart can fall as late as July 2.

The more important feast would be celebrated then… so Sacred Heart or Corpus Christi would take precedence, and NJB would be moved to the next day.

“Solemnities inscribed in the General Calendar, whether of the Lord, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, or of Saints,” all hold the same rank. The three celebrations in question thus rank equally, as they are all solemnities in the General Calendar.

I have not been able to find a specific answer to what happens in these particular cases (though I can’t rule out such an answer’s existing somewhere). A solution is suggested by the general rule given paragraph 60 of the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar: “a Solemnity impeded by a liturgical day that takes precedence over it should be transferred to the closest day” that is not a solemnity or feast. It would then be the responsibility of the pastor, or of the bishop if he cares to make a rule for his diocese, to determine which of the equally-ranked solemnities to celebrate on its proper day, and which to transfer.

 

[JGMendes4049]

Note, however, that the Solemnity of the Body and Blood of Christ would be on June 24 in this case, even in the United States. The default is Thursday, but Metropolitans may transfer it to the following Sunday.

 

[Digitonomy]

It would then be the responsibility of the pastor, or of the bishop if he cares to make a rule for his diocese, to determine which of the equally-ranked solemnities to celebrate on its proper day, and which to transfer.

Is there anything preventing the celebration of masses for more than one solemnity in a given day?

 

[MarkThompson]

Is there anything preventing the celebration of masses for more than one solemnity in a given day?

Sure: conflicting readings, preces, and propers; and the absence of any mechanism for combining them. Or are you asking about, say, having a Corpus Christi Mass at 10:00 and a Nativity of John the Baptist Mass at 11:30? Maybe that would work as a pastoral solution. Really, though, the question of which Mass to celebrate on a given June 24th is just a subset or special case of the more fundamental question of which Office is said on a June 24th when this occurs. If we can figure out that question – and the answer definitely can’t be “do them both” – then we will have an answer a fortiori to the question of which Mass to observe.

The ten minutes or so of checking that I was willing to do didn’t turn up the answer to that question strictly speaking, although it would seem that in the pre-1955 calendar, under which Corpus Christi, the Nativity of JtB, and the Sacred Heart were all doubles of the first class, Corpus Christi had precedence and the other two would have to be transferred in the event of an occurrence. Thus tradition suggests that Corpus Christi ought to be celebrated on the proper day and any occurrent solemnity be transferred, though it will take a better rubricist than I to answer the question definitely (if indeed it have an answer) for the modern calendar.

 

[FrDavid96]

Sure: conflicting readings, preces, and propers; and the absence of any mechanism for combining them. Or are you asking about, say, having a Corpus Christi Mass at 10:00 and a Nativity of John the Baptist Mass at 11:30? Maybe that would work as a pastoral solution. Really, though, the question of which Mass to celebrate on a given June 24th is just a subset or special case of the more fundamental question of which Office is said on a June 24th when this occurs. If we can figure out that question – and the answer definitely can’t be “do them both” – then we will have an answer a fortiori to the question of which Mass to observe.

The ten minutes or so of checking that I was willing to do didn’t turn up the answer to that question strictly speaking, although it would seem that in the pre-1955 calendar, under which Corpus Christi, the Nativity of JtB, and the Sacred Heart were all doubles of the first class, Corpus Christi had precedence and the other two would have to be transferred in the event of an occurrence. Thus tradition suggests that Corpus Christi ought to be celebrated on the proper day and any occurrent solemnity be transferred, though it will take a better rubricist than I to answer the question definitely (if indeed it have an answer) for the modern calendar.

Reading your post reminded me of something.

Corpus Christi is properly celebrated on a Thursday. In the US (and other countries where CC is not a holy day of obligation), it is automatically moved to that Sunday, 3 days later. If that Sunday happens to be June 24, John the Baptist, then it would not be moved to that Sunday, but to another one–I suppose the next one, July 1 since that would be a Sunday in Ordinal Time.

The whole point is that CC is moved; and it cannot be moved in such a way that it would replace the solemnity of John the Baptist, it can only be moved to replace a Sunday in Ordinal Time. At least that’s how I see things.

In the old calendar, CC was on its proper day (Thursday), so that might be why it took precedence over John if that day happened to be Thursday the 24th. For example, in 1943, June 24 was Corpus Christi, replacing John the Baptist (I made things easy and looked at an old table).

In 1984, Pentecost was June 10 and Corpus Christi was Thursday June 21. That was according to the table in my 1974 Sacramentary–printed before CC was moved to Sunday (I don’t know the exact date, only that the change occurred sometime between 1974 and 1985). Coincidentally, this changed by the time the 1985 printing was made, so the 85 Sacramentary doesn’t have a table telling us what days were celebrated in 1984. I only have the table printed in '74 for reference.

The reason why 1984 is relevant here is because that would tell us the answer–in that year, Corpus Christi and John the Baptist would fall on the “same” day–Sunday June 24. Which one was moved? And was 1984 before or after the change in the calendar which moves Corpus Christi in the first place?

In any case, I’ve looked as far as 2039 and this won’t be happening anytime between now and then.

 

[FrDavid96]

If anyone is curious as to when this will actually happen:

The next time will be in 2057

and again in 2068

It won’t happen again until sometime after 2087

toolan.com/liz/litcal.html

Note that the table on that webpage lists Corpus Christi as a Thursday and doesn’t take into account the places where it’s moved to a Sunday.

 

[tee_eff_em]

In a mere 10 years, 2022, June 24 will be the Friday following the second Sunday after Pentecost (ie the Solemnities of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Nativity of John the Baptist will be in conflict).

tee

 

[Digitonomy]

Or are you asking about, say, having a Corpus Christi Mass at 10:00 and a Nativity of John the Baptist Mass at 11:30?

Exactly. But now I see the bigger question you are trying to answer about the Office.

 

[FrDavid96]

Originally Posted by MarkThompson
Or are you asking about, say, having a Corpus Christi Mass at 10:00 and a Nativity of John the Baptist Mass at 11:30?

Exactly. But now I see the bigger question you are trying to answer about the Office.

The two solemnities cannot occur on the same day. One would have to be either moved, or not-celebrated that year. Therefore the Office would be according to that one day, not both.

 

[ag_vn]

Thanks everyone.

Yes. June 24 (June 27, in the United States, due to transfer to subsequent Sunday) is the last possible date for Corpus Christi, while the Sacred Heart can fall as late as July 2.

So it is possible for the Sacred Heart to fall also on June 29, the Solemnity of Ss. Peter and Paul

 

[FrDavid96]

Thanks everyone.

So it is possible for the Sacred Heart to fall also on June 29, the Solemnity of Ss. Peter and Paul

Oddly enough, it’s the same as what I posted earlier about Corpus Christi happening on the “same” (whatever the final result would be) Sunday as John the Baptist.

For this to happen, Pentecost would be on June 10.

Here are the dates

1962
1973
1984

2057
2068
2114
the next time would be after 2124

PS
Just for easy reference, this would be a year when Easter is 22 April.
Here’s a link to a table that goes to 2124
smart.net/~mmontes/freq3.html

 

[raalongi]

I have an olld Vatican II Sunday Missal, and I researched the year 1984.

That year, Corpus Christi fell on June 24 (the Birth of St. John the Baptist) and the Sacred Heart fell on June 29 (The Solemnity of Sts. Peter & Paul). Both Solemnities coinsided with other Solemnities.

What the church did that year was keep Corpus Christi & Sacred Heart on the dates in which they fell (June 24 & June 29 respectively). The Birth of St. John the Baptist was transferred to Mon. June 25; Sts. Peter & Paul was moved to Sunday July 1.

So it would seem to me that the movable solemnities take prescedence over the fixed ones and would remain on the day in which they fall, The fixed ones would be transferred.

So in the year 2022, the Sacred Heart should be celebrated on Friday June 24. The Solemnity of the Birth of John the Baptist could be transferred to Sunday June 26 and celebrated that day if not Saturday June 25.

In any case the Sacred Heart cannot move, I do not think; that feast MUST be celebrated on a Friday.

 

[tee_eff_em]

So it would seem to me that the movable solemnities take prescedence over the fixed ones and would remain on the day in which they fall, The fixed ones would be transferred.

That makes sense, for two reasons*:

• 
  *]Don’t move the moveable feasts further than necessary
  *]Though the Table of Liturgical Days appears to rank them equally, I believe it reasonable to read a partial ordering in the sentence “Solemnities of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and saints listed in the General Calendar,” so that the Solemnities of the Lord would precede the Solemnities of saints listed in the General Calendar.
  • :twocents: I have no documentation to support either of these: purely my opinion :twocents:
  tee

 

[Chatter163]

What the church did that year was keep Corpus Christi & Sacred Heart on the dates in which they fell (June 24 & June 29 respectively). The Birth of St. John the Baptist was transferred to Mon. June 25; Sts. Peter & Paul was moved to Sunday July 1.

So it would seem to me that the movable solemnities take prescedence over the fixed ones and would remain on the day in which they fall, The fixed ones would be transferred.

The reason for Corpus Christi and Sacred Heart staying on those dates is due to the fact that they are Solemnities of Our Lord, as opposed to the saints. It is true that the Nativity of St. John Baptist and Sts. Peter and Paul are also solemnities and therefore of the same liturgical rank as Corpus Christi and Sacred Heart. However, the Church has long had a tradition whereby in cases of coinciding observances such as these, the Solemnity of Our Lord takes precedence. These are very rare cases, but Our Lord’s days take precedence.

In the EF, the situation around this time of year would be further complicated by the feast of the Most Precious Blood, also a first-class feast of Our Lord, which occurs on 1 July. When Easter occurs late, this feast can coincide with the Sacred Heart (ironically, a very similar feast).

 

[Spirithound]

The reason for Corpus Christi and Sacred Heart staying on those dates is due to the fact that they are Solemnities of Our Lord, as opposed to the saints.

I discovered an interesting relationship between the Solemnities of Corpus Christi and the Sacred Heart… When Corpus Christi is celebrated on its intended day, Thursday, the two are a novena apart! I would think this should be taken into account when a decision is being made on this issue.

 

[raalongi]

The Feast of the Precious blood is no longer on the calendar (in the Roman Catholic Church, anyway) and has not been there since the calendar reform of the 1960’s. I think July is still dedicated to the Precious Blood, but that feast has not been celebrated for over 40 years.

Coincidentally, the feast of the Sacred Heart did fall on July 1 last year (2011) falling in July for the first time in over 60 years. This was because Easter was extremely late (April 24).