If God already knows the future does that mean it is meaningless for us to be good people?

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There are not multiple actual futures. Our choices are free, but ultimately we make a particular choice and not others … and God knows, in eternity, what we do choose. But He knows it because we choose it; he doesn’t predetermine our choices or force us to do anything.
 
Latin said:
In this case, we are the Supreme Rulers of the Universe and God is our butler.
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God gave us free will for a reason; we can choose to unite our will to His or to choose our own way. Would you prefer a robot for a spouse that was programmed to say “I love you” or would you want a spouse who truly and freely loved you?
 
Gab123 said:
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Latin:
In this case, we are the Supreme Rulers of the Universe and God is our butler.
Click to expand...
God gave us free will for a reason; we can choose to unite our will to His or to choose our own way. Would you prefer a robot for a spouse that was programmed to say “I love you” or would you want a spouse who truly and freely loved you?
Click to expand...
God is the Supreme Ruler of the universe, nothing happen in the Universe without God’s permission, not even a smallest act of sin.
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We have absolute free will to love and every other area we have a LIMITED free will, we free to do everything God permits us to do, cooperating with us in our actions by providing us the operative power to act and foreordained from all eternity according to His all-embracing purpose, a purpose (plan) which cannot be frustrated.
 
Latin said:
His all-embracing purpose, a purpose (plan) which cannot be frustrated.
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God wills that all people should be saved, yet He permits those who reject His grace to be condemned. Free will means we have the ability to reject God’s Grace to our own peril. Salvation is a gift; but like any gift, it too can be squandered, lost or rejected altogether…
 
Gab123 said:
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Latin:
His all-embracing purpose, a purpose (plan) which cannot be frustrated.
Click to expand...
God wills that all people should be saved, yet He permits those who reject His grace to be condemned. Free will means we have the ability to reject God’s Grace to our own peril. Salvation is a gift; but like any gift, it too can be squandered, lost or rejected altogether…
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OUR SALVATION IS NOT OUR CHOICE BUT IT IS GOD’S IRREVOCABLE DECISION

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John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.
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John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.
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CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church Simplified.

Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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As we see above NO ONE REJECTS GOD’S CALL TO ETERNAL LIFE.
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Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
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Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
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Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
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COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
… We are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which PRECEDE justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.
 
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Latin said:
OUR SALVATION IS NOT OUR CHOICE BUT IT IS GOD’S IRREVOCABLE DECISION
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Again, God did not predestine anyone for hell; that is what Calvin taught. God gives us free will to reject Him or to cooperate with His grace.
 
Usagi said:
No. The outcome is known. It is not predetermined.

It took me a goodly portion of my life to understand the difference, so don’t feel bad or anything, but there is a difference.
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God bless you Usagi and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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The outcome is known because we have been predestined.
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Eph.1:4-5; For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
5 In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
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Rom.8:30; Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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Eph.1:19-11; In the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will.
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Rom.5:18; Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
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2 Tim.1:9; He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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We have been Predestined from all Eternity, not according to our choice, but according to the purpose of God.

Of course AFTER our Justification we are all happily say YES to God’s call to Eternal Life.
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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God bless you Usagi and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin
 
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Gab123,
re: " God knows the future…"

Does He know before He creates a person that He will eventually be casting the person into the lake of fire? And if so, why do you suppose He goes ahead and creates the person anyway?
 
Woah, there’s so many threads like this.

You have free will. We are not fatalists.
The easiest way to think about it is this:

George Washington had free will. Yet, you know what he decided to do.

Similar concept, it would seem to me, of God’s omniscience. Obviously I don’t mean to say anything I can say can adequately capture God’s attributes.
 
God knows that every person He creates is given sufficient grace to make it to heaven; therefore those who reject His grace and choose to turn their back on His mercy in a sense glorify His Justice. As the Bible says, God wills that everybody be saved, but our free will allows us to choose. Nobody falls into the eternal abyss of Hell by accident, much like nobody who knows the truth rejects truth by accident…
 
Gab123,
re: “God knows that every person He creates is given sufficient grace to make it to heaven; therefore those who reject His grace…”

But does He know before He creates the person that the person will reject His grace?
 
When God makes a soul He already knows the glory that is in store for every soul He makes. God knows that many would and will turn away from Him; thus He sent a savior to save everyone that wants to be saved. Thus even the most wicked soul has a place in heaven if that person responds to God’s grace. God gives everyone a time to either be sanctified or to be demonized…
 
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I disagree with your assertion that God knowing the future means that He predetermined the outcome.
 
This is interesting. A question: do those who reject G-d therefore LACK “the divine initiative in the work of grace” or do they REJECT that divine initiative?
 
Catholicism teaches predestination, but not of the Calvin sort. Such was rejected at the Council of Trent, as we do not know for sure that it is correct.
 
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