If God already knows the future does that mean it is meaningless for us to be good people?

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anon64704623 said:
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Arwing:
If the future states that you are a bad guy it is because you use your own free will to choose to be bad.

That God knows all things does not mean He chooses what you do with your own free will.
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If the future states that I am a bad guy but I want to be a good guy but I can’t since it is already fixed in the future right?
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Our future is NOT set.

Many of the Marian Apparitions seem to indicate that our future can be changed

God gives us free will, but He also lets the Blessed Mother, the Saints, our Guarding Angels, and even other humans help us and intercede for us. Even smallest intercession can have a dramatic affect on someone’s future.

God is outside time, which means to Him, past, present & future are all the same thing. So God sees everything at once. However, our future isn’t set until it becomes the present & past.

God Bless
 
Latin said:
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Usagi:
No. The outcome is known. It is not predetermined.

It took me a goodly portion of my life to understand the difference, so don’t feel bad or anything, but there is a difference.
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God bless you Usagi and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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The outcome is known because we have been predestined.
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Eph.1:4-5; For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
5 In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
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Rom.8:30; Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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Eph.1:19-11; In the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will.
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Rom.5:18; Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
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2 Tim.1:9; He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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We have been Predestined from all Eternity, not according to our choice, but according to the purpose of God.

Of course AFTER our Justification we are all happily say YES to God’s call to Eternal Life.
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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God bless you Usagi and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin
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Yes, the Catholic Church teaches that some are predestined for Heaven. But the Church also teaches that no one is predestined for hell.
 
This is a good question. And the answer is…I don’t think we really know. Sure, we can skate around it by saying it is ultimately our own decision based on free will and G-d is just since He has given us the opportunity to decide and even change our evil ways. Nonetheless, why would a MERCIFUL G-d, Who KNOWS that we will eventually fail and that our final end will be ETERNAL DAMNATION, grant us life to begin with? And please don’t say that we WANT eternal damnation rather than to be with G-d. One might not want to spend eternity with G-d, but what kind of lunatic would want eternal damnation if we define this as pain and suffering?
 
“It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”

Hell’s worst torture is the lack of God. If you don’t want God, then that is exactly what Hell is.

People aren’t really predestined to Hell as far as I can tell. “It would have been better had he never been born” may be a phrase, but really think, is it actually true?

I know this sounds odd, but many actively seek death. In fact, it is said doing certain drugs is a sin against the 5th commandment against killing. It is the cessation of reason purposefully, but not for reason’s sake (like sleep would be). Buddhists seem to think the “candle blown out” sort of not being but maybe being is the ultimate thing to aim for. If only people would see the greatness of God! The zest for life seems so lost on so many. And surely, they were given enough grace to be saved. Yet, the hypothetical person who goes to hell, despite this, refused it. The separation of wheat from the chaff.

With all that we are given, what do we do with it? Tested like a metal is tested…
 
meltzerboy2 said:
This is interesting. A question: do those who reject G-d therefore LACK “the divine initiative in the work of grace” or do they REJECT that divine initiative?
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They reject it, as God’s grace is a free gift. As any gift, it too can be squandered and rejected altogether.
 
I have heard that hell is defined in Catholicism as separation from G-d rather than the Protestant fire and brimstone portrait. Then again, I have heard the latter as well according to Catholic teaching. But let me ask you: if someone does NOT want G-d, how would separation from G-d be considered hell to that person?
 
And this is the Catholic belief? Is the Calvinist belief the lack of divine grace or do they too believe in rejection?
 
Because God is like food and water to the soul. Since God is goodness itself, such a person would be separated from all joy and happiness.
 
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Presuming they go to Hell, they would get what they want. It’s not fulfilling at all, though. Imagine detesting all things good. I’ve experienced a litrle of that. I am glad I do not have to experience such totally, hopefully.
 
So even though the flesh of the person detested goodness and may have gotten some joy in doing evil, the SOUL thrives only on goodness? Or are you saying that a person who does evil is never really happy even on Earth?
 
meltzerboy2 said:
And this is the Catholic belief? Is the Calvinist belief the lack of divine grace or do they too believe in rejection?
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I’m pretty sure Calvinism believes that some people are created for hell while others are not.
 
How can getting what they want NOT be fulfilling to people who turn away from G-d? Do such people know any better or know that what they are missing is a much greater joy? It just doesn’t entirely make sense to me.
 
I think that the happiness comes from the goodness of God in a particular thing but that they are perverted by something that goes against God’s laws.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
: if someone does NOT want G-d, how would separation from G-d be considered hell to that person?
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Being that God is the Source of Goodness, Truth and Love itself, a total and complete separation from God would mean the absence of Goodness, Truth and Love; meaning, hatred, chaos and confusion; a compete spiritual darkness. An abyss shared with the fallen angels. life is a process; we are either being sanctified through God’s f[grace, or we are being demonized. All the fallen angels became wicked and evil when they separated themselves from God. Hellish NDE’s often describe this experiencs
 
So you mean the fallen angels are not happy with the consequence of their revolt against G-d, which consists of confusion, chaos, and hatred. In that case, might they wish to return to G-d? Also, is there no possibility of happiness accompanying evil according to Catholic teaching? I’m not talking about goodness but rather happiness. Can they at all be separated? Finally, aren’t some people on Earth happy when they lie, steal, even murder and get what they want? I suppose you’re saying this feeling changes in hell.
 
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I suppose such things are quite small joys compared to the happiness of virtue and Loving God who created all good things.
 
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A great question with an easy answer that I’m sure you can relate to.

Imagine, you will, someone who ignores all spiritual duty but tries to fill himself with cars, money, sexual relations, material things. Will this many ever be fulfilled, truly, though he gets what he “wants”? The clear answer should be “no, clearly not”.
 
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anon64704623 said:
I am not refering to how God knows how we will choose. I am refering to God actually watching the future happening before it happen to us like watching a TV screen as God works outside our Earth time-space dimension.
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There is your misconception. You’re applying before and after and sequential experience to God.
 
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I don’t necessarily agree with some of the characterization of Hell, here, as it is a matter of actual punishment due to attachment to and willing of evil…

But do you know people who “love” to be miserable?
 
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