If God Commanded You To Kill Someone, Would You Do It?

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I would think that it was a trick of Satan and flat out refuse. And then I would mention it to my counselor the next time I saw her.
 
Call_Me_V said:
See above. I find it hard to believe that all of the people he killed were deserving of death.

V
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My friend, He kills everyone one way or 'tother - and pretty much everyone, by reason of mankind’s sinfulness, is deserving of death. Or at the very least doomed to die. He makes it pretty clear those who aren’t - Enoch, Elijah, Jesus …

Now - would He directly order someone to kill another person or group nowadays? I don’t know. Few people even claim that He has, far more killers give the Devil credit instead.

And it’d take, I think, far more in the way of cojones than I’ve got to dare to think, let alone assert, that my Lord and God would deem me worthy of the honour of a personal command to do anything at all.

But then again, if He can order the seas off Indonesia to rise up into a tsunami and kill hundreds of thousands, then who is to say that He can’t choose people to be His instruments of ending others’ lives, just as He chooses inanimate forces like floodwaters?

The normal procedure for a Catholic who thinks they have had an apparition/locution/message from God is to test the spirits first - namely by bringing the matter before their priest, then their local bishop, then others if need be.

And the Church also has procedures for examining such questions. The very first thing they do is rule out mental illness - and it’s highly unlikely that anyone would be found to be sane who claimed that God asked them to kill someone! Then the Church looks at how well the ‘message’ or whatnot fits in with Church teaching, which is very much anti-murder. Then the person humbly obeys the Church’s ruling. And the Church has wrongly told people their apparitions were false - but Christ loves obedience to the Church very much, and has never been known to hold it against anyone who obeyed their bishops!
 
Holly3278 said:
I would think that it was a trick of Satan and flat out refuse. And then I would mention it to my counselor the next time I saw her.
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Out of curiosity, why would you believe that it was a trick of Satan? According to the Old Testament scriptures God had no compunction with ordering such killings. Why should you assume it was a trick of Satan simply because he ordered someone’s death? Considering God ordered hundreds of thousands of deaths, while I don’t think there’s any record of Satan ordering any (except for maybe Job’s family, I can’t remember for sure).

V
 
Call_Me_V said:
And if you determined that it was, in fact, God who was ordering you to kill someone… would you do it?! That’s the point of the entire post, if you believe that God’s commands can justify killing, you should be willing to kill for him without hesitation. That is the implication of Divine Command morality. Would you kill someone of God asked you to?

V
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Well if I’ve gone through the whole discernment process and the answer is yes it is God, of course.

Generally, there’s larger effects that you’re mitigating (like when David refused to destroy other idols people were worshiping, it ultimately lead to Israel’s downfall).

But again, I don’t think it would happen. In the post-New Testament times, God is more likely to call someone to raise up a great religious order (like the Franciscans or the Dominicans) to fight for the Church.
 
LilyM said:
My friend, He kills everyone one way or 'tother - and pretty much everyone, by reason of mankind’s sinfulness, is deserving of death. Or at the very least doomed to die. He makes it pretty clear those who aren’t - Enoch, Elijah, Jesus …

Now - would He directly order someone to kill another person or group nowadays? I don’t know. Few people even claim that He has, far more killers give the Devil credit instead.

And it’d take, I think, far more in the way of cojones than I’ve got to dare to think, let alone assert, that my Lord and God would deem me worthy of the honour of a personal command to do anything at all.

But then again, if He can order the seas off Indonesia to rise up into a tsunami and kill hundreds of thousands, then who is to say that He can’t choose people to be His instruments of ending others’ lives, just as He chooses inanimate forces like floodwaters?
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I’m not denying that God would have the authority to kill or order the death of anyone he wanted. I just want people to think through the implications of what that really means. If he chose you to kill someone, would you carry out the order?

V
 
curlycool89 said:
Well if I’ve gone through the whole discernment process and the answer is yes it is God, of course.
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Good for you. You’re consistent.
curlycool89 said:
But again, I don’t think it would happen. In the post-New Testament times, God is more likely to call someone to raise up a great religious order (like the Franciscans or the Dominicans) to fight for the Church.
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Yup. Your unchanging God did a 180 somewhere around 33 A.D., apparently 😃

V
 
Call_Me_V said:
I’m not denying that God would have the authority to kill or order the death of anyone he wanted. I just want people to think through the implications of what that really means. If he chose you to kill someone, would you carry out the order?

V
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I refer you back to my last post. There is proper procedure for determining whether any locutions/apparitions/messages from God are worthy of belief - and even if they ARE found worthy of belief (which is the most the Church will ever say) that does not mean that they are binding, being private revelation rather than public.

One can choose not to believe that Our Lady appeared at Fatima, or at least not pray the Rosary daily as she said to do there. So, I would imagine, even if the Church decides that your apparition/locution/message was a valid one, doesn’t mean it’s BINDING and that you MUST obey.
 
Hooding_Trees said:
Christians that really think that their god never kills, or orders the killing of, innocents really need to try reading their bible.

For example Jephthah (Judges 11), for those that don’t like reading see below. How on earth could anyone consider this creature to be moral? 🤷

youtube.com/watch?v=Pt66kbYmXXk

youtube.com/watch?v=REJ0Qc10iV0&feature=related
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The Bible also records that Moses murdered an Egyptian. Does it imply, by doing so, that his action was morally good? Of course not, quite the contrary.

Same with Jephthah. His episode is a cautionary tale warning us not to make foolish vows, it’s not an indication that God approves of doing as Jephthah did!
 
LilyM said:
The Bible also records that Moses murdered an Egyptian. Does it imply, by doing so, that his action was morally good? Of course not, quite the contrary.

Same with Jephthah. His episode is a cautionary tale warning us not to make foolish vows, it’s not an indication that God approves of doing as Jephthah did!
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There is also the opinion that maybe she wasn’t killed after all. The Haydock commentary is worth a read.
LilyM said:
One can choose not to believe that Our Lady appeared at Fatima, or at least not pray the Rosary daily as she said to do there. So, I would imagine, even if the Church decides that your apparition/locution/message was a valid one, doesn’t mean it’s BINDING and that you MUST obey.
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There’s also the idea of the interpretation. Once you decide it means something, you exclude all other possibilities. We don’t know how God would reveal such a thing. We don’t know if He would just say “Kill tomorrow at high noon”. Given how He revealed His commands to both St. Francis and St. Dominic, I don’t think it would be simple.
 
LilyM said:
The Bible also records that Moses murdered an Egyptian. Does it imply, by doing so, that his action was morally good? Of course not, quite the contrary.

Same with Jephthah. His episode is a cautionary tale warning us not to make foolish vows, it’s not an indication that God approves of doing as Jephthah did!
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So god helps Jephthah slaughter 1000’s of people, then killed his daughter to teach us a lesson about making vows? And you think this is a suitable method for a supposedly loving being to get its point across? :eek:
 
Hooding_Trees said:
So god helps Jephthah slaughter 1000’s of people, then killed his daughter to teach us a lesson about making vows? And you think this is a suitable method for a supposedly loving being to get its point across? :eek:
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The OT certainly is a bit crazy, isn’t it? I like that God hardened the Pharaoh’s heart, so that the pharaoh would go after the israelites so him and his men would be killed. lol, and he could have just as easily softened his heart and created a great egyptian king…but I guess that would have been too easy. Anyone trying to defend the actions of God in the OT is silly IMO as they are actions that cannot be defended morally. Basically, they didn’t happen.
 
Hooding_Trees said:
So god helps Jephthah slaughter 1000’s of people, then killed his daughter to teach us a lesson about making vows? And you think this is a suitable method for a supposedly loving being to get its point across? :eek:
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For a person, no, it is not an acceptable way to get across one’s point, for we do not determine when someone is to die.

But, God is the one who determines that. What if by getting such a point across, Jephthah’s daughter is enjoying Heaven right now? God is just, but He is merciful.

It’s really hard for someone who doesn’t believe in God to understand it, heck, even I, a believer, sometimes find it hard to understand.

But sometimes, we just gotta trust our faith. Putting so much trust in faith may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me.

May the blessings of God be upon you, and I hope to someday hear that you are interested in becoming Catholic.
 
I would absolutely not, under any circumstances, kill another human being. Period, full stop.

In the end I must believe and trust in the goodness and mercy of God. and So i would simply do nothing, and trust that God understands my inaction and forgives me.
 
presidentjlh said:
For a person, no, it is not an acceptable way to get across one’s point, for we do not determine when someone is to die.

But, God is the one who determines that. What if by getting such a point across, Jephthah’s daughter is enjoying Heaven right now? God is just, but He is merciful.

It’s really hard for someone who doesn’t believe in God to understand it, heck, even I, a believer, sometimes find it hard to understand.

But sometimes, we just gotta trust our faith. Putting so much trust in faith may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me.

May the blessings of God be upon you, and I hope to someday hear that you are interested in becoming Catholic.
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Or, you can do what I do and chalk the OT up to fairy tales.
 
presidentjlh said:
It’s really hard for someone who doesn’t believe in God to understand it, heck, even I, a believer, sometimes find it hard to understand.

But sometimes, we just gotta trust our faith. Putting so much trust in faith may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me.
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I’ll admit, I would have been in the same shock and disgusted boat just a couple years ago. Now, I just put my faith in God because He knows what He’s doing much better than I do.
 
Practically, here’s what I would probably do if a vision appeared to me under the guise of God, telling me to kill someone:
  1. Ask the “angel” to pray with me to hopefully indicate whether it is an evil spirit or not.
  2. Consult my local priest, go to confession, receive the Eucharist, and participate in adoration.
  3. If it appeared to be genuine, I think I’d take it all the way up the Church heirarchy to the Pope.
  4. If the Church approved of the reality of the message, I might be convinced to carry out the killing. But I can’t accurately say what I would do. I can’t imagine why God would want me to personally kill someone when he can just do it himself.
As for the all the killing in the Old Testament, such as the doom on the Amalekites, I consider there to be a few potential replies:

-God truly did order the genocide and since he is the author of life and death it is his perogative to do so. He saw it just to have the Israelites kill the nations themselves in order to solidify their resolve against worshipping the pagan gods.

-God didn’t order the genocide but the Israelites, in writing about the events after they happened, attributed it to the command of God

-Any innocent children who died are now in heaven, and their early deaths prevented them from learning the sinful ways of their parents and ending up in hell

-Jesus took the punishment of sin on himself so it does not make sense for us anymore to kill people in the name of their wickedness

I’d love to act like I have a perfect answer to the dilemma of violence and evil in the Old Testament, but I don’t. However, I do believe there are worthwhile arguments for help in understanding it.
 
I would also attempt to discern whether whatever’s appearing to me is God or a demon. I like Luke’s suggestions 🙂

If God really did want me to kill somebody, I would do so. Morality is set by God, not by us.
 
Luke_K said:
Practically, here’s what I would probably do if a vision appeared to me under the guise of God, telling me to kill someone:
  1. Ask the “angel” to pray with me to hopefully indicate whether it is an evil spirit or not.
  2. Consult my local priest, go to confession, receive the Eucharist, and participate in adoration.
  3. If it appeared to be genuine, I think I’d take it all the way up the Church heirarchy to the Pope.
  4. If the Church approved of the reality of the message, I might be convinced to carry out the killing. But I can’t accurately say what I would do. I can’t imagine why God would want me to personally kill someone when he can just do it himself.
As for the all the killing in the Old Testament, such as the doom on the Amalekites, I consider there to be a few potential replies:

-God truly did order the genocide and since he is the author of life and death it is his perogative to do so. He saw it just to have the Israelites kill the nations themselves in order to solidify their resolve against worshipping the pagan gods.

**-God didn’t order the genocide but the Israelites, in writing about the events after they happened, attributed it to the command of God
**
-Any innocent children who died are now in heaven, and their early deaths prevented them from learning the sinful ways of their parents and ending up in hell

-Jesus took the punishment of sin on himself so it does not make sense for us anymore to kill people in the name of their wickedness

I’d love to act like I have a perfect answer to the dilemma of violence and evil in the Old Testament, but I don’t. However, I do believe there are worthwhile arguments for help in understanding it.
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I agree with the bold…but even more likely is that it didn’t even happen.
 
Who has seen the move Fraility? It’s about this situation and it’s not clear whether the guy is crazy or whether God really is commanding him to do these killings for the sake of good.

But if God tells somone to kill people I would think that person is in dire need of psycological help and should get some immediately. In the obscure possibility that God is legitimately telling this person to start a war against evil, a possibility I don’t believe would occurr since Jesus did the opposite, but if, it is somehow like a Joan of Arc scenario, then God would provide a miracle to show it is more than a mental disorder.
 
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