A much better question is if God is omniscient and omnipotent He knew before creating anything what the results of creation would be. He could have created angels and men and not had them fall into evil. He knew what would happen, the mess that would be made and yet created it all.Since God created someone without original sin (and presumably without the tendency to sin as well) why doesn’t he just create everyone else the same way? Wouldn’t that solve the problem of sin in a much easier and more effective way than having Jesus come to be sacrificed?
A finite mind can not comprehend anything infinite.
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif Good points…When we encounter a thing that is beyond our finite ability to understand we call it mystery.
CCC491: Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.Since God created someone without original sin (and presumably without the tendency to sin as well) why doesn’t he just create everyone else the same way? Wouldn’t that solve the problem of sin in a much easier and more effective way than having Jesus come to be sacrificed?
Following up on this excellent post, and on the actual thread title, this is where accuracy in terminology is useful. Eve was created without original sin. Mary was not created; she was conceived thru the same process as the rest of us humans, but the redemption to be purchased by Christ was applied to her in advance, and she was conceived (not created) without original sin.CCC491: Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.
492: The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by the merits of her Son.” The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love.”
493: The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia) and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature.” By the Grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
Mary, too is redeemed by Christ. There is no redemption without Christ. The price for mankind sinning is death. Genesis 3:3, 19; Romans 6:23. Jesus paid the price for us, once for all. 1 Peter 3:18
The example usually given is about falling into a mud puddle. We have fallen in and Jesus pulls us out. Mary was prevented by Jesus from ever falling in.
Mary was told what God had in store for her in the Gospel of Luke, and she consented to it, undoing the “no” of Eve. Mary could have said no, but said yes. She, too had free will, but was unencumbered by the attachment to sin and the clouded judgment that comes with it. God wants us to love him. Love, by its nature, means making a decision. If the decision is removed from the equation, then it cannot be love.
When men encounter mystery, things that are incomprehensible, but true, one of the responses is disbelief. Even in the natural order things that amaze us are hard to believe and we often refuse to believe them or are very astonished. The word incredulous describes the state of a person when this happens.
Mary is not a “someone”. She is the mother of Jesus, the Co-Redemptrix…Since God created someone without original sin (and presumably without the tendency to sin as well) why doesn’t he just create everyone else the same way? Wouldn’t that solve the problem of sin in a much easier and more effective way than having Jesus come to be sacrificed?
**This is a very relevant point. Mary’s Immaculate Conception was pure grace…for all mankind! Like the rest of us, she didn’t merit that grace; it was part of God’s plan of salvation for us, a plan whereby we’re saved corporately, as a body. There must be great value in God’s mind for having the majority of humankind come to Him, turning from sin, the *hard *way, by experience, by, grueling at times, learning to choose only the good and reject evil after being cast into a world where both of those realities are experienced, or known, until we recognize our need for the Father, the ultimate Goodness, and run, like the Prodigal, back to His open arms.We are all in this together.
Poseidon:Since God created someone without original sin (and presumably without the tendency to sin as well) why doesn’t he just create everyone else the same way? Wouldn’t that solve the problem of sin in a much easier and more effective way than having Jesus come to be sacrificed?
FHansen:This is a very relevant point. Mary’s Immaculate Conception was pure grace…for all mankind! Like the rest of us, she didn’t merit that grace; it was part of God’s plan of salvation for us, a plan whereby we’re saved corporately, as a body. There must be great value in God’s mind for having the majority of humankind come to Him, turning from sin, the *hard *way, by experience, by, grueling at times, learning to choose only the good and reject evil after being cast into a world where both of those realities are experienced, or known, until we recognize our need for the Father, the ultimate Goodness, and run, like the Prodigal, back to His open arms.
The New Covenant is all about our wills becoming freely aligned with Gods will, but not without His necessary help, His grace, Mary’s role being a critical link in the process. And BTW, Mary, herself, still never lacked the freedom to commit her own OS.
That is exactly what He is going to do!Since God created someone without original sin (and presumably without the tendency to sin as well) why doesn’t he just create everyone else the same way? Wouldn’t that solve the problem of sin in a much easier and more effective way than having Jesus come to be sacrificed?
It’s not that he couldn’t create everyone the same way, it’s that he didn’t – and he didn’t have to. That he did for Mary was an act of grace, an act of mercy.Thanks for your responses so far, but I’m seeing a common pattern here. Most people seem to be telling me how and why God created Mary without sin. My question, however, is if he could create one person that way, why couldn’t he create everyone that way? If somehow she was saved at conception “by the grace of God” then why can’t everyone have the same treatment?
Why can’t everyone? Because God chose not to. Why is this a problem?Thanks for your responses so far, but I’m seeing a common pattern here. Most people seem to be telling me how and why God created Mary without sin. My question, however, is if he could create one person that way, why couldn’t he create everyone that way? If somehow she was saved at conception “by the grace of God” then why can’t everyone have the same treatment?
So that he might court his spotless bride…Thanks for your responses so far, but I’m seeing a common pattern here. Most people seem to be telling me how and why God created Mary without sin. My question, however, is if he could create one person that way, why couldn’t he create everyone that way? If somehow she was saved at conception “by the grace of God” then why can’t everyone have the same treatment?
Think about it like this: your wife (I’m guessing you’re male from your name) is going to have a baby. The doctor tells her that if she smokes and drinks while pregnant the baby will not develop properly, and will likely come out with physical and mental issues. If she wants a healthy baby all she has to do is forego smoking and drinking for the duration of the pregnancy. With this knowledge, if she did smoke and drink we’d rightly call her a terrible mother.Why can’t everyone? Because God chose not to. Why is this a problem?
The reason is that Mary was to be the mother of the Father’s only begotten Son, Jesus. A singular role never to be repeated.Since God created someone without original sin (and presumably without the tendency to sin as well) why doesn’t he just create everyone else the same way? Wouldn’t that solve the problem of sin in a much easier and more effective way than having Jesus come to be sacrificed?
In the case of the woman, the woman actively engages in the behavior that renders the child ‘wounded’. In the case of God, He does nothing to actively render the to-be-conceived soul ‘wounded’. There is no behavior God is engaging in that he must quit for the to-be-conceived soul to be free of harm. Original sin is inherited from the human parents, not inflicted or embedded by God.Think about it like this: your wife (I’m guessing you’re male from your name) is going to have a baby. The doctor tells her that if she smokes and drinks while pregnant the baby will not develop properly, and will likely come out with physical and mental issues. If she wants a healthy baby all she has to do is forego smoking and drinking for the duration of the pregnancy. With this knowledge, if she did smoke and drink we’d rightly call her a terrible mother.
Extending the analogy to God, he is perfectly capable of producing sin-free humans, who are spotless of mind, body, and soul, all while retaining their free will. Instead he chooses to create us with original sin and fallen natures. This doesn’t seem compatible with God’s supposed loving nature, and I’m trying to understand the justification.
God didn’t create Mary without the freedom to sin. She was essentially in the same position as Adam & Eve. She was no more capable of remaining sin-free and spotless as she was capable of sinning. She chose to remain sin free. And having been born without the effects of OS, without concupiscence, didn’t necessarily even make her life any easier here on this fallen planet. With grace provided by Christs’ sacrifice, we all have the same advantage-we can all overcome sin in the end.Think about it like this: your wife (I’m guessing you’re male from your name) is going to have a baby. The doctor tells her that if she smokes and drinks while pregnant the baby will not develop properly, and will likely come out with physical and mental issues. If she wants a healthy baby all she has to do is forego smoking and drinking for the duration of the pregnancy. With this knowledge, if she did smoke and drink we’d rightly call her a terrible mother.
Extending the analogy to God, he is perfectly capable of producing sin-free humans, who are spotless of mind, body, and soul, all while retaining their free will. Instead he chooses to create us with original sin and fallen natures. This doesn’t seem compatible with God’s supposed loving nature, and I’m trying to understand the justification.
