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snarflemike
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If yes, please explain why.
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Viki63
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I don’t think so. If there is no First Cause, then everything that exists occurred as a result of random chance, therefore has no ultimate meaning or purpose. C.S.Lewis says that nothing can rise above its cause, so therefore if there is no intelligence behind our creation, our own intelligence is not valid.
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duncan123
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Everything has meaning and value, and everything does not have meaning and value… What does that mean you might ask. Well, Everything has meaning and value because we are all interconnected (joined at the hip). Everything all of us do has an effect on the entire plant, universe and all beings… For every action there is a reaction. At the same time everything does not have meaning and value which means that the sillyness that we attach to our mindless actions and ego really holds no meaning or value. Things just are and thats all it will ever be. However, because everything is interconnected we are and God is… Does that make sense ?
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PJH_74
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On a Spiritual level things have little meaning without God I think. But temporally I still find life worth living since there is so much to enjoy and do; I guess that in itself gives it meaning because it has meaning to me.
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snarflemike
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I agree that things have effects on other things, but how do effects have meaning or value? It’s all just moving atoms around, isn’t it? How does that have meaning or value?
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Hokomai
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Meaning must be ‘meaning to’. If I practice speaking Marquesan to my dog (I have done this!) the words have meaning to me and to any passing Marquesan speaker but not to my dog. In themselves words have no meaning. Meaning is socially determined. This is shown in the way words change over time. The significance of things such as events also requires someone for them to be significant to. Value is also ‘value to’. These are not absolutes. If you believe in the Christian God you will use the meaning and values you (name removed by moderator)ut to him as some sort of absolute. But this is merely a choice on your part. It has no significance in itself beyond that choice to believe that you make.
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YeshuaOrHaOlam
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Shalom snarflemike;
Short answer to your question; no.
Once a skeptic myself, this was actually the one thing which drove me to find G-d, in a powerful way.
I had been living with no real compass, no hope of life after the grave, and no real basis for morality; and one day it just hit me like a ton of bricks, how ridiculous life really is, without G-d there to provide meaning.
I’ve heard countless atheists and non believers state that they find meaning in life in their relationships, or their family, or their job, or their hobbies. This is all fine and well, but in the end, we all perish.
And though we tried to build up our life as some sort of meaningful endeavor, without G-d, and without a promise of life after this one, it really is completely meaning-less.
Those were dark days; some of the worst, emptiest, loneliest, hopeless days of my life.
And though during my dark night of the soul, my spirit cried out in utter agony and despair, I thank G-d for it. Through such a terrifying encounter I was driven to find G-d.
Or was it G-d, finding me?
Shalom Aleichem
Short answer to your question; no.
Once a skeptic myself, this was actually the one thing which drove me to find G-d, in a powerful way.
I had been living with no real compass, no hope of life after the grave, and no real basis for morality; and one day it just hit me like a ton of bricks, how ridiculous life really is, without G-d there to provide meaning.
I’ve heard countless atheists and non believers state that they find meaning in life in their relationships, or their family, or their job, or their hobbies. This is all fine and well, but in the end, we all perish.
And though we tried to build up our life as some sort of meaningful endeavor, without G-d, and without a promise of life after this one, it really is completely meaning-less.
Those were dark days; some of the worst, emptiest, loneliest, hopeless days of my life.
And though during my dark night of the soul, my spirit cried out in utter agony and despair, I thank G-d for it. Through such a terrifying encounter I was driven to find G-d.
Or was it G-d, finding me?
Shalom Aleichem
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
But that’s just it… You said life would still be worth living if you ENJOYed it. There are many people whose lives are not enjoyable due to illness or difficult living conditions. We are fortunate right now to be living in a time and place where we don’t have to worry about bombs, violence, frequent illnesses… etc… It seems without God and spirituality life becomes just another commodity or materialistic possession. Everyone will get sprinkled with difficult times- some more than others and at different times of the life span. I think this is often where people find they NEED God. So was the ‘meaning’ there but undiscovered, or is it an illusion?
Does something have meaning just because you enjoy it? That’s kind of a scary thought- It reminds me of Hitler like mentalities. (I mean “you” as a collective you… not you specifically PJH. I’m not trying to pick on you or what you said! Just wondering outloud.)
Ok, sorry if this was deep… I need to get myself to bed. Its full moon after all tonight.
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snarflemike
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Let me ask the question another way. If God does not exist, then surely we are just assemblies of atoms, “programmed” to increase the probability of similar assemblies of atoms in the future. But what difference does it make how the atoms of this planet are assembled? Why is your assembly (an exceedingly temporary one in any case) in any way better than a rock or a bog?
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someperson555
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ofcourse it would.
if God wouldnt exist then you would be God.
if God wouldnt exist then you would be God.
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snarflemike
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But if God does not exist, this thing you call “enjoy” is simply a feedback mechanism to tend to provide your assembly of atoms something that it benefits from. But what does it matter if your atoms have developed such a feedback mechanism? Why is that better than any other atom-assembly feedback mechanism, or none at all?
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someperson555
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exactly, i seriously never understood these theists who say “oh if theres no God then everything is meaningless”. frankly i find that to be nonsense. im a religious person, but if there was no God, that would have its pros too.
you would be completely free.
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damianmark
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But God does exist so don’t worry. If God didn’t then you would have never ever have asked your question or thought so deeply about your own existence. We can’t comprehend God or ever in a million life times understand infinity or ever come close to recognising it! We have words for it that fail upon scrutiny to offer any answers. Evolutionary Biologists claim we came from a common ancestor or a few million and our higher thought process is a survival mechanism. Well plenty of animals share similar defence mechanisms like poison. However I ask why are we the only creature on earth that found it necessary to our survival to be able to imagine, create and construct our own sense of self and individuality? Many other creatures form a society, some even posses language and tools. Yet none not one other species on earth can ask If GOD EXISTS and does anything truly have meaning. Some will say this is the superego speaking but please why oh why would you ever need to consider love or hate, good or evil, to survive when we could be an efficient singular hunting pack that fed itself well and functioned quite efficiently without the need for our human condition? The evolutionary people say that it developed by the need of integration but if at that stage we were mere brutes why would we care about a separate groups survival we would as they admit lack the higher functions to appreciate genetic diversity and mutual beneficiaries. But really people quote the difference between skin tone, culture blah blah blah we are ignorant pigs but no we are not because no pig even given every opportunity we were or any other creature has ever made the evolutionary leap to understand oneself
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theidler
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Completely free to do anything you choose for absolutely no point or reason at all. Freedom without content, as Tillich says.
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someperson555
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you would be master of your own destiny! dont you find that appealing at all?
“and the overman shall be the meaning of the universe” -nietzsche
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Hokomai
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I don’t think it is better. I think it is different. I do think of myself (our ourselves to me more exact) as ‘special’ matter in that we are to some extent self-reflective and able to achieve through culture development that would take evolution eons, if ever to achieve. I also think it possible (and have no empirical way of assessing the likelihood of this) that humans are the only examples of conscious self-reflective matter ever to develop, anywhere in the universe. I once thought this made us ‘better’ but now I think of it as ‘different’, so I guess that’s where the ‘difference’ you ask about comes in. Certainly, also, given the general importance of wetlands to the survival of all species, I would rate my personal existence as less important than any bog. I reckong though that I am more important than most rocks, at least those up to medium size, and not holding or blocking anything really significant.
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LynJohn1023
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duncan123
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Things have meaning and value in and of themselves. Does an atom not have an action, a function, therefor,
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duncan123
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It is not anyway better. Just because we have the capabilities to control and conquer animals does not in anyway signify we are better. Question ? Do you have the right to take a life ?
Are Atoms not of Gods creation…
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duncan123
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On a spirital level, the miracle is life itselve, we are, we feel pain, joy ,cry,laugh, etc… Would not Data from Star Treck give all to expirence these wonders of life…
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