If God existed, why would He preside behind the Great Schism and the Protestant Reformation?

[RTully]

I’ve just replied to a similar post in another thread. And my reply is essentially this: if that was part of God’s plan, then you are attributing evil to God. You are attributing heresy to God.

Why would Christ who prayed for unity make it part of his plan to splinter this unity? You are making Christ sound idiotic. He implores His Father to keep us united when He had the demise of this unity planned all along.

So Christ must have wanted people to fall into heresy and muddle in this confusion.

We’ll all be united in heaven brother. We’re all united in Gods grace and mercy and in Christ as the Son of Man. God knows what is going to happen before it happens, what has hapened is no suprise to God. I don’t believe any individual that truly believes in the Word is seperated from Christ or God in any way.

 

[benedictus2]

We’ll all be united in heaven brother. We’re all united in Gods grace and mercy and in Christ as the Son of Man. God knows what is going to happen before it happens, what has hapened is no suprise to God. I don’t believe any individual that truly believes in the Word is seperated from Christ or God in any way.

Just because what has happened is no surprise to God does not mean that He planned it that way. That would be to attribute sin to Him.

He gave us free will and allowed us to choose evil because even with such a choice, He can still bring about the good. But to say that He planned the evil is ludicrous.

He allowed the evil because He can make something beautiful from it.

 

[RTully]

He allowed the evil because He can make something beautiful from it.

I don’t see the huge spread of his word by non Roman Catholic churches as evil.
I’m sure we’re not going to agree and I have to get to work. Take care.

 

[Nate13]

I don’t see the huge spread of his word by non Roman Catholic churches as evil.
I’m sure we’re not going to agree and I have to get to work. Take care.

The evil would be allowing the Truth to become diluted. Even if you don’t believe the Church has the Truth you have to agree that many many people have been led astray in the name of following the Bible. The spread of the Word is not evil, but there is no reason that couldn’t have happened without the Protestant Reformation.

 

[benedictus2]

I don’t see the huge spread of his word by non Roman Catholic churches as evil.
I’m sure we’re not going to agree and I have to get to work. Take care.

The huge spread of His word would have been accomplished without the reformation. The Christianization of the world would have proceeded even without the reformation because the Church was tasked with the evangelization of the world by her Founder. History backs this up.

Without the reformation, what would have been preached to everyone would have been the Truth - undiluted by heresy. Now we see massive chunks of the population ill-catechized and confirmed in heresy without them knowing that it is heresy because this is what they have been taught since children courtesy of the ever splintering Protentatism.

But God is indeed great for He makes things beautiful in His time after we have messed it up. Now we see Protestant converts to Catholicism at the forefront of Catholic apologetics. They have the added advantage when it comes to apologetics for having “been there, done that, found it wanting”.

 

[christosdavid]

Providence is a notoriously difficult area of doctrine. We know that evils described in the Bible have occured for a reason.

For eg. Job’s misfortunes
Joseph being sold into slavery - which he comments on saying, “you meant it for evil but God meant it for good.”

When Israel was starving there was a govenor that they could turn to for sustinance.

The slavery in Egypt which demonstrated God’s war against his “rival gods” in Egypt through the plagues and an apparent ‘wrong turn’ that demonstrated God’s power and salvation.

In terms of the schism (1056) and the Reformation (1517) the unity and clarity has been diminished and yet there has been an increase in the amount of Christian work around the world.

The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium) acknowledges the grace of God outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church.

As for why Judaism wasnt first? Abraham c.2100 BCE wasnt born yet. he was withdrawn from Ur of the Chaldees and from polytheism to the service of the immortal God.

Will we be divided forever? probably. Most Protestants Ive met are content to go to a seperated worship venue. Many no longer even giving lip service to the continuing reforming of the Catholic Church.

But the church always had different orders and movements, perhaps the parallels lies there, there has always been disunity within the unity of the Church.

All stilll have a loyalty to Jesus as the name given by heaven by which men can be saved.

 

[yablabo]

Can you show how this is a sign that the gates of hell prevailed.

In the western schism, only one was validly Pope - the bad one. But this in no detracts from infalliblity because for the gates of hell to prevail, the Church must fall into heresy. The Church has not fallen into heresy.

As a matter of fact, when Charlemagne asked the Pope why it is not a practice to recite the Nicene Creed at Mass in the Catholic Church, the Pope replied that it was not necessary as the Church never fell into heresy. As bad as some Popes were, they never taught error.

I wonder WHAT in the world would make you say that Pope Gregory XII was a bad Pope :O…he is said to have died in the odor of sanctity.

– Nicole

 

[benedictus2]

I wonder WHAT in the world would make you say that Pope Gregory XII was a bad Pope :O…he is said to have died in the odor of sanctity.

– Nicole

I think I may have got my Popes mixed up. I will have to check that one up.

From memory however, in one of the times when there was an anti-Pope, the anti-Pope was the one who was more morally sound than the valid Pope.

But I will check my MP3 file to verify which one it is. Apologies for the wrong info if this is wrong info.