If God is so merciful, why does he let Satan exist to do evil things to us?

[Spock]

How do you know miracles are not constantly occurring? Do you monitor every event?

According to Catholics, miracles happen very rarely.

“to my satisfaction” is the key phrase.

Of course it is. Whose satisfaction should I rely on?

And that you yourself may be bumbling and incompetent in your judgment?

Sure, may be. But so far I have not seen any objections which would “prove” that.

What **do **you worship?

Nothing.

The very fact that you favour the psychological equivalent of leucotomy reveals your disregard for human rights.

There are no “human rights”. “Rights” are a social construct, granted by the powerful to the weaker ones (usually by the goverment to the governed), by stipulating that certain behaviors will not carry retribution.

If we are genuinely in favour of free will we have to accept evil as an inevitable consequence.

Logical error. Only the possibility of evil is an inevitable consequence, not the actuality of it. How many times was this pointed out by both believers and atheists? You still did not comprehend it.

 

[tonyrey]

According to Catholics, miracles happen very rarely.

Others whose judgment you respect and who have far more competence in the subject…

And that you yourself may be bumbling and incompetent in your judgment?

Sure, may be. But so far I have not seen any objections which would “prove” that.

They are implicit in many objections made to your arguments - particularly when you make such derogatory references to God as “bumbling and competent”… Your statements reveal antipathy to theism rather than objective analysis - which is the hallmark of competent philosophers.

What do you worship?

Nothing.

Then you lack “a feeling of profound love and admiration” for anything…

The very fact that you favour the psychological equivalent of leucotomy reveals your disregard for human rights.

There are no “human rights”. “Rights” are a social construct, granted by the powerful to the weaker ones (usually by the government to the governed), by stipulating that certain behaviors will not carry retribution.

If there are no human rights there is no reason why God shouldn’t let Satan exist to do evil things to us!

If we are genuinely in favour of free will we have to accept evil as an inevitable consequence.

Logical error. Only the possibility of evil is an inevitable consequence, not the actuality of it.

We don’t live in a possible but a real world. It is possible that free will is an illusion but you accept it as a reality without being able to explain how it exists.

 

[Spock]

Where do you get that idea? Miracles recognised by the Church are relatively rare but there is no doctrine to that effect. Christians believe in the power of prayer to influence the course of events.

And there are no properly executed, double blind experiments to support it. Christians believe in many things. Not my problem.

Others whose judgment you respect and who have far more competence in the subject…

Are there? Examples, please.

They are implicit in many objections made to your arguments - particularly when you make such derogatory references to God as “bumbling and competent”…

You are seriously mistaken if you think that I am talking about God. I have explained many times that I use the word “God” as a simple way to express the “hypothetical being who is believed by Christians to exist, and who has certain attributes”. I base all my assessments on what you, apologists say about God. And you describe a bumbling, incompetent being. Don’t blame me for your fault.

Then you lack “a feeling of profound love and admiration” for anything…

Nonsense. Worship is to put something on a pedestal.

If there are no human rights there is no reason why God shouldn’t let Satan exist to do evil things to us!

True. But then he cannot expect us to be grateful, can he? By the way, the first commandment is in dire contradiction with the First Amendment, which grants the freedom of religion. God does not grant it.

We don’t live in a possible but a real world.

And the real world is also a possible world. I hope you don’t think that the real world is impossible The point is, which you may have overlooked that the actuality of evil is not a logical consequence of free will. But the possibility of evil certainly is.

 

[tonyrey]

Miracles recognised by the Church are relatively rare but there is no doctrine to that effect. Christians believe in the power of prayer to influence the course of events.

Do you believe only that which is supported by double blind experiments?

Others whose judgment you respect and who have far more competence in the subject…

Are there? Examples, please.

How I know whose judgment you respect?

They are implicit in many objections made to your arguments - particularly when you make such derogatory references to God as “bumbling and competent”…

You are seriously mistaken if you think that I am talking about God. I have explained many times that I use the word “God” as a simple way to express the “hypothetical being who is believed by Christians to exist, and who has certain attributes”. I base all my assessments on what you, apologists say about God. And you describe a bumbling, incompetent being.

You are forgetting rule 7 of this forum:
“Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.”

Then you lack “a feeling of profound love and admiration” for anything…

Nonsense. Worship is to put something on a pedestal.
Metaphorically:
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=worship

If there are no human rights there is no reason why God shouldn’t let Satan exist to do evil things to us!

True. But then he cannot expect us to be grateful, can he?

You have changed the subject - maladroitly - to evade the fact that your objection no longer has a foundation.

By the way, the first commandment is in dire contradiction with the First Amendment, which grants the freedom of religion. God does not grant it.

How is this related to the OP?

We don’t live in a possible but a real world.

And the real world is also a possible world.

It’s not possible but actual! We’re no longer in the realm of theory.

The point is, which you may have overlooked that the actuality of evil is not a logical consequence of free will.

My point is that we are not dealing with the logical but** real **consequences of having a mind! Your argument is that the mind is something that can be modified at our convenience whereas in reality it is an integral entity capable of rational thought, moral judgment, love and self-determination. It does not consist of parts like a material object.

 

[BlueShadow123]

There’s actually a thread on this very subject:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=521818

Short answer: God does not destroy what He creates. Nor does he compel. Satan has been defeated, though, and he only has power if he let him.

Right… but before God created Lucifer, he knew he was going to turn on him, so why bother create him?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

BlueShadow

*Right… but before God created Lucifer, he knew he was going to turn on him, so why bother create him? *

Why not? Only by giving Satan the freedom to rebel did God give freedom at all. Without that freedom, both angels and humans would have been mere automatons had they been created only to know good and never to know evil, not even the evil of other angels and other humans.