If God Really Does Answer Every Prayer

[Keikiolu]

Quote:Where God has us all equal is exactly in the ‘right way’–equal opportunity. Doesn’t matter if you are rich, poor, black, white, brilliant, stupid. . .you have exactly the grace you as an individual need to gain heaven. You have exactly the same chance. Do you really believe this? You don’t think that some people have just a tad better chance? I guess you kind of have to believe it. If you believed otherwise it would mean accepting the fact that the God you believe in is unfair.

Exodus 4:21 And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you perfom before Pharoh all the wonders that I have put in you power; but I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.”

***Everyone ***has an equal chance?

Just like yourself, God had chosen to allow the big Poobah to “harden his heart”, which was God’s will (“I will harden…”) in that He allows us our free will, which He “knows about and is telling” (is prophesying), which the author of the book worded as “God hardened his heart” in the vernacular of the day.

See also: Navarre Bible - Pentateuch - notes on Gen4:21-23

This is why people should NEVER interpret scripture without reference to the Magisterium.

CCC 112-114

“What’s needed to interpret…?”

…other references you can find yourself, as my fingers hurt.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[moletOeHIOWA]

His answers are Yes, No and wait.

Often our prayers are not inaccordance with his will. Our goal is to discern his will,

If our prayers are not in accordance with God’s will, then why pray? If I pray to God, as the bible instructs me to pray, and my prayers aren’t answered/granted, but whatever “answer” I do get is “God’s will”, then no mater what I ask for in prayer will not be granted to me unless it is God’s will that I have what it is I ask for( in prayer.)

 

[Everstruggling]

Just like yourself, God had chosen to allow the big Poobah to “harden his heart”, which was God’s will (“I will harden…”) in that He allows us our free will, which He “knows about and is telling” (is prophesying), which the author of the book worded as “God hardened his heart” in the vernacular of the day.

Ah, I see. So that quotation means the exact opposite of what it appears to mean. Very clever. None of your references actually lent any weight to this interpretation, where did you find it? Would the same hold for “I have hardened”? because that appears later.

This is why people should NEVER interpret scripture without reference to the Magisterium.

You know, that whole letting someone else do the thinking for you thing never really worked for me. It is true of course, that not speaking ancient Hebrew, I have to let everyone who worked on the translation “think for me”, but once I have the words before me, I like to figure things out on my own.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Everstruggling]

The only thing Pangloss go wrong, of course, was that his thinking wasn’t based on God.

:bigyikes: Wasn’t based on God? The enitre project of Theodicy was attempting to reconcile the evil in the world with a benevolent God. Pangloss was based on Liebniz who argued this must be the best possible world because it was created by a perfect God. What part about it isn’t based on God?

I actually COULD tell the difference between “banging my head” and not “banging my head”.

So could I, that is why I left. I always felt prayer should be distinct from saying, “I will accept whatever happens.”
However, one could argue that since I am still forced to accept whatever happens, I am still praying ardently.

I especially like clever “rudeness”, where you find some bit of truth and exploit it for comic effect. Like the Mr. Pangloss reference. Absolutely wonderful…!! I bow to your prowess…!

Thank-you??? I’m not sure how to take a compliment on being rude, but I’m glad you liked the Pangloss reference.:tiphat:

I imagine Voltaire, whom I don’t know due to my aforementioned unedumacatedness, didn’t have much of a clue about God.

I could be wrong,… but that would be my first guess.

If your denifintion of know anything about God includes agreeing with your opinions, then he clearly knew nothing at all.

No,… I like snide,… and rude,… and curmudgeonly,… but they must be accompanied by humor,… and if at all possible, profundity,… but at least pointedness.

Gahhh! I thought I was at least 20 years away from being called a curmudgeon. This is as bad as the first time some kid called me “sir”.

Thanks for playing,… next thumb-wrestling match will start in 15 minutes,… Your waitresses need to have some floor time to make some tip money…

 

[jack_hawkins]

Whatever you say, Mr. Pangloss.

Why not bang my head against the wall to see if it really does hurt? Or maybe I should try brussel sprouts again for the 50th time just to see if I ***still ***don’t like them.

Why don’t you give non-belief a try? What are you chicken?

I’m sorry, it was rather rude of me to imply you were chicken. Hey, wait a minute…

edit:

I don’t know if you have read any Voltaire, fell free to skip this explanation if you have. Mr. Pangloss is a character that says “In the best of all possible worlds, everything is for the best.” This was just the type of positivism that drove Voltaire batty. I was implying that I feel much the same way that Voltaire does. That my observations of life differ considerably from yours on this matter.

My apologies if my message seemed snide. I haven’t been sleeping well, and it’s making me irritable.

Oh dear, I think your comments elsewhere are an example of transference…
why do atheists/agnostics namedrop Voltaire all the time - trying for glory by association???
plenty of people have read Voltaire, there is no great cachet to it

 

[Everstruggling]

Oh dear, I think your comments elsewhere are an example of transference…
why do atheists/agnostics namedrop Voltaire all the time - trying for glory by association???
plenty of people have read Voltaire, there is no great cachet to it

You really have to reach to think that I was name dropping there. I provided an explanation of Pangloss because many people have not read Candide. Like my fiancee, best friend, and countless others. I don’t think that reading Candide makes me any more intelligent than not reading Moby **** makes me unintelligent. I don’t assume that everything I know is common knowledge, any more than I assume that knowing something makes me intelligent.

If you are searching for all of my threads to find instances of me being rude so you can feel better about your own rudeness, let me know. I can point you to much better examples than this one. I am certainly not perfect.

See, I can admit to making mistakes.

(Consider that one a freebie. I was exceptionally rude just now.)

 

[moletOeHIOWA]

He does - the answer isn’t always ‘yes, and I’ll do it in a miraculous way as well’. Of course sometimes it’s ‘no’ as well but always because he has different, and usually better, plans for us.

If I pray for a child and have one, or to pass an exam and do pass, there’s nothing miraculous about either eventuality, but would they be any less God’s doing?

“…he (I’m going to presume you ment “He” ) has different, and usually better, plans for us.” A very interesting comment and one that I’ve heard, in one form or another, quite a few times. Only problem is, I’m now pushing through my 50’s, the twilight of my life, and I’m still waiting for the presentation of my “plan”.

 

[moletOeHIOWA]

Jesus said “Ask, and you will receive”
He said “Pray always”

But he also said “Pray in my name”

In the 1st century, ‘my name’ was and expression that means ‘pray as if I were praying, pray for things that I would pray for were I with you’.

So when someone acts in the king’s name, his actions are in accord with the king’s wishes even though the king is not there.

Are your prayers for things in accord with the will of Jesus?

How would I know what the “will of Jesus” is so that my prayers would be in accordance with that will? And then if I know what Jesus’ will is for me, what do I need to pray for other than knowledge of that will and the ability to accept His will for me. Because, as I see it, if I pray for anything other than His will for me, my prayers.and time, are futile.

 

[LilyM]

“…he (I’m going to presume you ment “He” ) has different, and usually better, plans for us.” A very interesting comment and one that I’ve heard, in one form or another, quite a few times. Only problem is, I’m now pushing through my 50’s, the twilight of my life, and I’m still waiting for the presentation of my “plan”.

I said plans, not ‘plan’ as in some grand world-shaking destiny (well at least not on this earth anyways). Besides which, what do you think your past 50 years have been? Chopped liver?

 

[LilyM]

How would I know what the “will of Jesus” is so that my prayers would be in accordance with that will? And then if I know what Jesus’ will is for me, what do I need to pray for other than knowledge of that will and the ability to accept His will for me. Because, as I see it, if I pray for anything other than His will for me, my prayers.and time, are futile.

You got it - knowledge of His will and ability not just to accept but to DO His will as well. Neither of those are easy to come by without prayer, for sure.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Just like yourself, God had chosen to allow the big Poobah to “harden his heart”, which was God’s will (“I will harden…”) in that He allows us our free will, which He “knows about and is telling” (is prophesying), which the author of the book worded as “God hardened his heart” in the vernacular of the day.
*

Ah, I see. So that quotation means the exact opposite of what it appears to mean. Very clever. None of your references actually lent any weight to this interpretation, where did you find it? Would the same hold for “I have hardened”? because that appears later.

You may interpret scripture as you wish, because you don’t have to do otherwise.

You’re interpretation is valid, for you,… though incorrectin relity andincorrect to those who have the authority to make correct interpretations of scripture.

God allows you to hold whatever belief you wish.

He has “hardened your heart”, in that He allows your sin to occur of your own free will.

A “prophet” would say that God has “hardened your heart”, because His will is always what happens, and what has happened is that you have been allowed your free will to sin, which is to harden your heart.

Quote:
This is why people should NEVER interpret scripture without reference to the Magisterium.
You know, that whole letting someone else do the thinking for you thing never really worked for me. It is true of course, that not speaking ancient Hebrew, I have to let everyone who worked on the translation “think for me”, but once I have the words before me, I like to figure things out on my own.

That’s cool.

But why not listen to the experts? And why demand that you know more than an institution that’s been around for 2000 to 3000 years (if you go back into Old Testiment times)?

Sounds rather egomaniacal, doesn’t it?

In other words,… read more, dude, and go to proper sources instead of superficial “reviewers” before telling the experts what the truth is.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif *The only thing Pangloss go wrong, of course, was that his thinking wasn’t based on God.*Wasn’t based on God? The enitre project of Theodicy was attempting to reconcile the evil in the world with a benevolent God. Pangloss was based on Liebniz who argued this must be the best possible world because it was created by a perfect God. What part about it isn’t based on God?

As I’ve said any number of times, I ain’t that terribly edumacated.

Obviously Pangloss, aka Liebniz, as portrayed by the author who created Pangloss, didn’t base his “project” (Theodicy?) on God, because it’s not possible to be disappointed in God if you understand who God is.

Quote:I actually COULD tell the difference between “banging my head” and not “banging my head”. So could I, that is why I left. I always felt prayer should be distinct from saying, “I will accept whatever happens.”
However, one could argue that since I am still forced to accept whatever happens, I am still praying ardently.

Actually, you’re quite right!

You ARE praying ardently to be given proof of God which you’ll accept, and the answer you’re being given is that you’ll have to accept that the answer you get is what you need, which is not proof that you’ll accept.

Lovely Catch-22 situation you’ve got for yourself, there…!

Quote:I especially like clever “rudeness”, where you find some bit of truth and exploit it for comic effect. Like the Mr. Pangloss reference. Absolutely wonderful…!! I bow to your prowess…! Thank-you??? I’m not sure how to take a compliment on being rude, but I’m glad you liked the Pangloss reference.

I really liked the Pangloss reference. That was a beautifully apropo “character” to illustrate the misunderstandings of those who think they know what their talking about when they talk about God, in that they show where they don’t understand God perfectly while not seeing that they’ve done just that.

Quote:I imagine Voltaire, whom I don’t know due to my aforementioned unedumacatedness, didn’t have much of a clue about God.

I could be wrong,… but that would be my first guess. If your denifintion of know anything about God includes agreeing with your opinions, then he clearly knew nothing at all.

You want to know about God, see the Church (Catholic),… otherwise you haven’t quite got it.

I do hope NOBODY agrees with my opinions as they pertain to God, except in that they coincide with the Church, as I’ve no standing of authority in such matters whatsoever.

Quote:

No,… I like snide,… and rude,… and curmudgeonly,… but they must be accompanied by humor,… and if at all possible, profundity,… but at least pointedness. Gahhh! I thought I was at least 20 years away from being called a curmudgeon. This is as bad as the first time some kid called me “sir”.

Heh he…! How about this then,… I was calling ME curmudgeonly, and you the other things. Does that help…!?

Quote:
Thanks for playing,… next thumb-wrestling match will start in 15 minutes,… Your waitresses need to have some floor time to make some tip money…

…You waitress and the management thank you for cheerful attendance,… but the bar is closing at the top of the hour, so LAST CALL…!!

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Keikiolu]

How would I know what the “will of Jesus” is so that my prayers would be in accordance with that will? And then if I know what Jesus’ will is for me, what do I need to pray for other than knowledge of that will and the ability to accept His will for me. Because, as I see it, if I pray for anything other than His will for me, my prayers.and time, are futile.

Once people get over the idea that “praying” is “requesting stuff”, only then can they start to understand that praying is for listening to the “distance” between the “why’s” of where you are and the “why’s” of where you should be, so that they can act in a way that brings them closer to behaving in ways that bring them closer to the answers to the “why’s” of where they should be.

If you want to know how you should act, go to the Church. It’s in black and White.

If you want to know how to act that way, go to prayer.

(( Cryptic enough for 'ya…!? ))

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Everstruggling]

You’re interpretation is valid, for you,… though incorrectin relity andincorrect to those who have the authority to make correct interpretations of scripture.

And I would find those correct interpretations where? You haven’t done anything except reassert your initial position. Why should I believe that you are quoting the experts, or that your interpretation follows that of the catholic church?

A “prophet” would say that God has “hardened your heart”, because His will is always what happens, and what has happened is that you have been allowed your free will to sin, which is to harden your heart.

Again, where? How? From what does this interpretation come?

But why not listen to the experts? And why demand that you know more than an institution that’s been around for 2000 to 3000 years (if you go back into Old Testiment times)?

Which? Whom? Whose?

In other words,… read more, dude, and go to proper sources instead of superficial “reviewers” before telling the experts what the truth is.

Does a year living at a seminary run by orthodox Benedictines satisfy you as being “expertly” taught? I assure you I read lots and lots while I was there. (Strangely enough, that’s where I read Candide .)

Are you saying that you are an expert, by the way? You just suggested I was telling the “experts” what the truth is. I thought I was mearly debating something on a message board.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif *You’re interpretation is valid, for you,… though incorrectin relity andincorrect to those who have the authority to make correct interpretations of scripture.*And I would find those correct interpretations where? You haven’t done anything except reassert your initial position. Why should I believe that you are quoting the experts, or that your interpretation follows that of the catholic church?

Catechism (CCC)
Navarre Bible (NT) w/commentary (Old Testament available also)
EWTN (reference to other things)
Vatican
Vatican II docs
More Vatican II docs

…that should get you started.

Quote:

A “prophet” would say that God has “hardened your heart”, because His will is always what happens, and what has happened is that you have been allowed your free will to sin, which is to harden your heart. Again, where? How? From what does this interpretation come?

That interpretation was from the referenced volume of the Navarre Bible commentary associated to the verse that was in question (the “hardened their heart” verse).

That commentary holds the “Nihil Obstat”/“Imprimi potest” (imprimatur) which makes it “official”.

Quote:

But why not listen to the experts? And why demand that you know more than an institution that’s been around for 2000 to 3000 years (if you go back into Old Testiment times)? Which? Whom? Whose?

Once again,… see above references.

Quote:

In other words,… read more, dude, and go to proper sources instead of superficial “reviewers” before telling the experts what the truth is. Does a year living at a seminary run by orthodox Benedictines satisfy you as being “expertly” taught? I assure you I read lots and lots while I was there. (Strangely enough, that’s where I read Candide .)

And you still don’t understand what you should understand?

Why is that? And why is it that you don’t know how to find “official docs” of the Catholic Church…!!?

Your credibility is starting to slip, buckeroo…

Are you saying that you are an expert, by the way? You just suggested I was telling the “experts” what the truth is. I thought I was mearly debating something on a message board.

I’m no expert at all. Far FAR from it.

I can see how you say what you say on this board.

It comes from not knowing what you’re talking about.

Do you think it a good idea to “debate” a subject you know very little about?

If so,… why?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Writer]

Why aren’t miracles common?

I would think that they would show up daily. Shouldn’t miraculous cures be common place? With the number of devout Catholics in the world, it seems strange that God’s works don’t spring forth like a gyser. It seems to suggest this in the Bible, anyway. Jesus often talks about people doing “greater things than these”. And by often I mean, “I’m sure I read it at least once.”

I once said that I would believe if I were to witness a miracle first hand, and the majority of responses that I got seem to suggest that it was completely unreasonable. It seems to me the most reasonable thing in the world. I wonder why no one else thinks so.

You’ve hit on a complicated topic… First, we can’t test God. That is, we can’t say I will do this, if you do that. It doesn’t work that way. To paraphrase the verse, blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe.

Second, I’d suggest that miracles happen all around us that we fail to appreciate or recognize.

I’m a little short on time, but I had an article published in *America *on the topic of prayer and miracles. I’d be happy to forward it to you, if you want… (Just contact me off the board, as I don’t always check the Forums regularly.)

 

[Everstruggling]

Catechism (CCC)
Navarre Bible (NT) w/commentary (Old Testament available also)
EWTN (reference to other things)
Vatican
Vatican II docs
More Vatican II docs

Okay,

Once again none of these links supports your interpretation!!!

The CCC doesn’t mention that verse, and the only section dealing with “a hardened heart” doesn’t have anything to do with what you are saying.

A link to where I can buy a Bible is completely useless.

That interpretation was from the referenced volume of the Navarre Bible commentary associated to the verse that was in question (the “hardened their heart” verse).

Whew!! Finally ***something ***to back up your claims. Finally.

That commentary holds the “Nihil Obstat”/“Imprimi potest” (imprimatur) which makes it “official”.

No, it doesn’t. You should look that up. Not containing heresy, and being the official teaching of the church are miles apart,bucko.

And you still don’t understand what you should understand?

Why is that? And why is it that you don’t know how to find “official docs” of the Catholic Church…!!?

Your credibility is starting to slip, buckeroo…

It comes from not knowing what you’re talking about.

Do you think it a good idea to “debate” a subject you know very little about?

If you had even the slightest clue what you are talking about you would be offensive. But now that I realize just how uninformed you really are, I just find it laughable.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Catechism (CCC)
Navarre Bible (NT) w/commentary (Old Testament available also)
EWTN (reference to other things)
Vatican
Vatican II docs
More Vatican II docs

Okay,

Once again none of these links supports your interpretation!!!

The CCC doesn’t mention that verse, and the only section dealing with “a hardened heart” doesn’t have anything to do with what you are saying.

A link to where I can buy a Bible is completely useless.

Ok then. Obviously I’m a bit confused.

Who was trying to convince whom of what?

Please clarify my apparently egregious error as to what we were talking about.

Let’s step back and restate the “problem”, as I think we’ve gotten terribly out of sync and may very well be talking about different things.

Thanks in advance.

Quote:
That interpretation was from the referenced volume of the Navarre Bible commentary associated to the verse that was in question (the “hardened their heart” verse).
Whew!! Finally ***something ***to back up your claims. Finally.

And yet,… you don’t give me your commentary on their commentary? My citation of the Navarre Bible commentary was given (by me) so that you could comment on it.

Do you have any comment on their opinions, or what?

Anyone HOME out there…!!?

Hello…???

Quote:
That commentary holds the “Nihil Obstat”/“Imprimi potest” (imprimatur) which makes it “official”.
No, it doesn’t. You should look that up. Not containing heresy, and being the official teaching of the church are miles apart,bucko.

From the wiki-entry:
“Nihil obstat is an official approval by a delegated censor of the Roman Catholic Church to publish a work dealing with faith or morals. It signifies that the publication is free from Catholic doctrinal or moral error.
The phrase is Latin, meaning, “nothing hinders” or “nothing stands in the way.”
The Nihil obstat, along with the Imprimi potest, forms part of the Catholic Imprimatur.”

“…free of doctrinal or moral error” is all I’m looking for. That sounds like an “OK!” to me.

You may, as usual, believe as you wish.

Quote:
And you still don’t understand what you should understand?

Why is that? And why is it that you don’t know how to find “official docs” of the Catholic Church…!!?

Your credibility is starting to slip, buckeroo…

Quote:

It comes from not knowing what you’re talking about.

Do you think it a good idea to “debate” a subject you know very little about?

If you had even the slightest clue what you are talking about you would be offensive. But now that I realize just how uninformed you really are, I just find it laughable.

I actually DO very much like to be the source of humor…!

As I said, the fact that you couldn’t figure out how to find official Catholic documents tells me just about everything I need to know.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[moletOeHIOWA]

His answers are Yes, No and wait.

Often our prayers are not inaccordance with his will. Our goal is to discern his will,

This is what I don’t understand; what does it mean to be in accordance with God’s will? How do we discern God’s will? What your statement implies to me is this. If our prayers are not in accordance with God’s will then His answer is “no”, or at the very least “wait”. Then if the answer is no, the prayer is futile because apparently I didn’t discern God’s will before I prayed and/or my prayer wasn’t in accordance with His will. And if the answer is “wait”, then my question is how long should you wait; and please don’t tell me the (“wait”) answer will come in God’s time, because if that’s the case I can, with certainity, say I have been "wait"ing for a particular answer for 35+ years…and for this old guy time is running out. Also, please don’t reference me the story about St. Monica who waited 30+ years for St Augustine to come around.
Thanks for yor time and ear.

John

 

[Keikiolu]

This is what I don’t understand; what does it mean to be in accordance with God’s will? How do we discern God’s will? What your statement implies to me is this. If our prayers are not in accordance with God’s will then His answer is “no”, or at the very least “wait”.

When you act according to the “rules” of God, then you are doing God’s will, which is discerning God’s will.

How do we “DO” that, ie “discern God’s will”…?

By not acting in ways against God’s “rules”. What are those rules? See the Magisterium for info about that. Specifically, the CCC (Catechism), Vatican II docs, etc, and talk to several Priests.

God NEVER answers NO,… He gives you a big YES by giving you what you need, which may not be what you want.

You’re just interpreting a non-what-you-want answer as a NO.

Then if the answer is no, the prayer is futile because apparently I didn’t discern God’s will before I prayed and/or my prayer wasn’t in accordance with His will.

Since you can’t get a NO, this is not a problem. If you assume, correctly, that He is giving you what you need, then if what you need is different from what you want, you’ve learned something!

You’ve learned that you need to stop insisting that the only acceptable answer from God is what you want, and be quiet and try to figure out what He IS giving you,… which is what you need.

As time goes by, and your powers of discernment improve, whereby you can more quickly and more accurately discern what it is that God IS giving you, then you can get better at “steering” your wants toward what you need, which is what God has been giving all along.

And if the answer is “wait”, then my question is how long should you wait;

God NEVER makes you wait for what you need, as He’s ALWAYS constantly offering that to you. All you need to do is LISTEN to receive it.

How sensible is it to wait for God, the most wise and loving, to give you something that is not what you need and may actually be bad for you?

If you were in God’s shoes, how long would you make you wait for what would be bad for you?

and please don’t tell me the (“wait”) answer will come in God’s time, because if that’s the case I can, with certainity, say I have been "wait"ing for a particular answer for 35+ years…and for this old guy time is running out. Also, please don’t reference me the story about St. Monica who waited 30+ years for St Augustine to come around.
Thanks for yor time and ear.

John

Best to you in your listening and following and finding.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.