If Henry the VIII were alive today, would he be Catholic?

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Padres1969 said:
That’s a good question. I wonder if many of the controversial or downright evil Popes of yesteryear would be Catholic today. Or how about some of the Anti-popes?
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I don’t think it was a bad thing when the Catholic Church fell on hard times and got out of the world empire politics business. Just became the original Christian Church again. That said, I think if the original Church went by the name “Anglican” or “Lutheran” and had hit the heights of world power up to what, the 14-15th century that the Roman Catholic Church did, I question if it would be any more “pure.” I just think the name of this thread would be: If “Henry the VII were alive today would he be ___________?” (fill in the blank) Saints and sinners in all Churches - past present and future. That is what the Bible told us would happen anyway: sheep and wolves.
 
GKC said:
Though Hank has been a hobby of mine for lo these 20 years (give or take a fortnight), I don’t think this game is worth playing. Too many undefined circumstances, too many assumptions, too many variables, too many dubious analogies to the then/now relationships between the secular and religious power structures required. Or the criticality of the problem of dynastic succession at the time, etc and so on. History is complicated. Too complicated to try this sort of thing on, with a straight face. But let all players who are having fun carry on, to be sure.

Decree of nullity.
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I quite agree with you, GKC, and would add one piece to all of this. The Church in England has always been distinctly unique and somewhat at odds with the Roman Church and hierarchy. I believe that if the situation with Henry had not come up over his request for a decree of nullity, there would have been a formal break at another time. It was never really over theology, so England would not have gone Lutheran, nor Calvinist. The history is complicated, as we have been saying. Your guessing game is not one anyone could really win.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I quite agree with you, GKC, and would add one piece to all of this. The Church in England has always been distinctly unique and somewhat at odds with the Roman Church and hierarchy. I believe that if the situation with Henry had not come up over his request for a decree of nullity, there would have been a formal break at another time. It was never really over theology, so England would not have gone Lutheran, nor Calvinist. The history is complicated, as we have been saying. Your guessing game is not one anyone could really win.
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Over the years I’ve discussed on here my take on that. It was not merely over theology, it was a question of the intertwined relationship between theology, ecclesiology, politics and nascent nationalism. What Henry did, in taking the Church in England private, was a difference in degree, not in kind, of a process that had been on going in England for (at least) +/- 300 years; the increasing independence of the ruling class (monarchy, at the time) from any control from outside the realm. History is complicated, and to see what I mean, you would have to go back at least to Henry II, in the 12th century. Acts of Parliament and Royal decrees limiting and abolishing Papal and Church perogatives were numerous (Council of Westminster, Council of Clarendon, First Statute of Winchester, Statute of Mortmain, the Writ Circumspecte agatis, the Statute of Carlisle, and the double Statutes of Provisors and Praemunire, for example.). Had Henry produced a regiment of legitimate male heirs, with Catherine, eventually, some sort of break would have come. It didn’t start with Henry. But it came to a head (so to speak) under him.

Henry was the perfect storm, but the relationship between the throne and the Church had been contentious for years.
 
GKC said:
Over the years I’ve discussed on here my take on that. It was not merely over theology, it was a question of the intertwined relationship between theology, ecclesiology, politics and nascent nationalism. What Henry did, in taking the Church in England private, was a difference in degree, not in kind, of a process that had been on going in England for (at least) +/- 300 years; the increasing independence of the ruling class (monarchy, at the time) from any control from outside the realm. History is complicated, and to see what I mean, you would have to go back at least to Henry II, in the 12th century. Acts of Parliament and Royal decrees limiting and abolishing Papal and Church perogatives were numerous (Council of Westminster, Council of Clarendon, First Statute of Winchester, Statute of Mortmain, the Writ Circumspecte agatis, the Statute of Carlisle, and the double Statutes of Provisors and Praemunire, for example.). Had Henry produced a regiment of legitimate male heirs, with Catherine, eventually, some sort of break would have come. It didn’t start with Henry. But it came to a head (so to speak) under him.

Henry was the perfect storm, but the relationship between the throne and the Church had been contentious for years.
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It’s those damn people on their island causing trouble again 😉
 
If Henry had a vision of the last two Lambeth conferences he would have WALKED to Rome (after getting off the boat at Calais) to do pilgrimage and reconciliation to the Holy Father–doing the last mile on his knees
 
Lion_of_Narnia said:
If Henry had a vision of the last two Lambeth conferences he would have WALKED to Rome (after getting off the boat at Calais) to do pilgrimage and reconciliation to the Holy Father–doing the last mile on his knees
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No, I think he’d have dusted off the VI Articles, and warmed up the axe.
 
Padres1969 said:
Henry the VIII was Catholic when he was alive. And indeed considered himself so until he died. So I suspect yes.

Just a question, you’ve been asking this question a lot regarding historical figures. May I ask to what end?
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Well, it was never meant to be taken that seriously, hence the smiley. I never started the original ‘If Luther were alive today, would he be Catholic?’ thread. But I did think the question, like so many ‘what if’ questions, to be rather silly. I plead guilty to the Wesley thread from yesterday, and the Henry the IV (I am:D) thread for today.
My point being, questions like this are never the way to deal with historical figures or events.
But, if people like ‘what if’ questions, now’s your chance. 😃
 
If Henry the V111 were alive today and he heard how beautifull the music was at Catholic churches I think he would sing in the choir.
 
Chaste_Forever said:
If Henry the V111 were alive today and he heard how beautifull the music was at Catholic churches I think he would sing in the choir.
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Bah, Anglicans have much better music than the Catholics. Have you heard our hymns? Hank would have chilled right in the ole Church of England.
 
Padres1969 said:
Bah, Anglicans have much better music than the Catholics. Have you heard our hymns? Hank would have chilled right in the ole Church of England.
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You beat me to it, Padres. Hands down, the Anglicans have it over the RCs in church music.
 
There were no Roman Catholics lately who left the Church to start their own churches.

Good ole Henry was a Catholic, albeit King of England, and today it would be unthinkable that a King would leave the Church to start his own religion.

Based on that assumption, so no, Henry would still be Catholic.

He would not want all the hooha that would ensue should he apostate because he wanted to get married after being denied by the Pope, no less. Just imagine the buzz mass media will give him, and the internet will be full of it. No modern monarch would want that.

He lived in different time. ;);)😉
 
And besides, Pope Francis is such a nice person. He would have given Henry a call, don’t know how he would do it, but I would hazard a guess the Holy Father would be able to convince him to stay Catholic.

Maybe he would include England in his next itinerary and what a blessing that would be.
 
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