If I am saved by faith alone, why do I need to read the Bible?

[PRmerger]

I still am. My catechism is “dogeared.”

Well, they have enough to leave.

I knew enough that I left.

Fair enough. You’ll have to forgive my skepticism though. I always ask ex-Catholics this and 9 out of 10 times these ex-Catholics demonstrate that they indeed have an abysmal knowledge of the faith. So here’s 1 question that I ask that you answer without looking it up on google. Answer it based solely on your past catechesis:

Where in the Mass is Scripture?

If you remember attending Mass, and remember the nuns’/priests’ teachings, this should be quite easy to answer.

 

[WCH]

Fair enough. You’ll have to forgive my skepticism though. I always ask ex-Catholics this and 9 out of 10 times these ex-Catholics demonstrate that they indeed have an abysmal knowledge of the faith. So here’s 1 question that I ask that you answer without looking it up on google. Answer it based solely on your past catechesis:

Where in the Mass is Scripture?

If you remember attending Mass, and remember the nuns’/priests’ teachings, this should be quite easy to answer.

Reading and reciting scripture is all through the mass.

 

[PRmerger]

Reading and reciting scripture is all through the mass.

Good job, WCH. Would you please provide some reference? Clearly, the Our Father is in Matthew. Anything else?

 

[WCH]

Good job, WCH. Would you please provide some reference? Clearly, the Our Father is in Matthew. Anything else?

All of the Scripture recited in the Mass is found throughout the Bible.

 

[PRmerger]

All of the Scripture recited in the Mass is found throughout the Bible.

This is true.

You do get a for knowing that Scripture is everywhere in the Mass.

As to the rest of my question, I will make it easier for you, WCH, and refer you to this site.

Nearly everything we say at mass has its roots in Sacred Scripture. This guide will help you if anyone you know is in doubt about that. Catholics quote scripture all the time, and their actions are deeply scriptural. After all, scripture flowed out of the early Church. The Church came first, the New Testament and the canon of scripture second.

Greeting

Priest: In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:19)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
Priest: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13:13)
People: And also with you.

Liturgy of the Word

Penitential Rite

All: I confess to almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault. (Jas. 5:16) In my thoughts and in my words, (Rom. 12:16) In what I have done and what I have failed to do; (Jas 3:6) and I ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, all the angel and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. (1 Thess 5:25)
Priest: May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life. (1 John 1:9)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
All: Lord have mercy. (Tb 8:4) Christ have mercy. (1 Tim 1:2) Lord have mercy.

 

[WCH]

This is true.

I know it is; I’m a former Catholic. And I’m that because of what I know.

 

[PRmerger]

I know it is; I’m a former Catholic. And I’m that because of what I know.

Could you give one specific “what you know” thing that made you leave the CC?

 

[TrueLight]

As to the rest of my question, I will make it easier for you, WCH, and refer you to this site.

Awesome link!

 

[WCH]

Could you give one specific “what you know” thing that made you leave the CC?

Works righteousness.

 

[guanophore]

Has it changed that much?

No, but clearly your ability to understand and accept has, as well as your interest. Most Catholics leave because they don’t know what they had.

Actually the binder of the Bible I use is not mentioned by the publisher: the Lockman Foundation.

Ok, so you want to get cute. Are you really going to deny that the Catholic Church produced the Bible?

I know. I use the 66 book canon set forth by the Reformers; all of them were members of the catholic church.

Yes, they were, until they fell into heresy. The rejection of the canon used by Jesus and the Aposltes was one of those heresies.

I know, I’m a member of the catholic church.

Upon the premise that you are validly baptized, yes. Jesus only founded One Church, therefore, all who are members of Him are also members of that One Church.

What is making it so important for you t reject the Catholic faith?

(Edited)

 

[PRmerger]

Works righteousness.

Well, then, WCH, would you please explain what it is that you believe the CC teaches regarding how we are saved?

 

[WCH]

No, but clearly your ability to understand and accept has, as well as your interest. Most Catholics leave because they don’t know what they had.

The JWs and LDS say the same thing.

Ok, so you want to get cute.

What?

Are you really going to deny that the Catholic Church produced the Bible?

Define “the Catholic Church produced the Bible.” After I see your definition I might give you an answer.

Yes, they were, until they fell into heresy. The rejection of the canon used by Jesus and the Aposltes was one of those heresies.

Where did Jesus and the Apostles define the canon?

 

[WCH]

Well, then, WCH, would you please explain what it is that you believe the CC teaches regarding how we are saved?

No. It’s too involved. But you can find everything in the CCC.

 

[guanophore]

I still am. My catechism is "dogeared."

That means your separation from the Catholic Church is not likely a result of lack of knowledge, but bad experience (like exposure to faithless “catholics”), or objections to the moral teachings of the Church.

Well, they have enough to leave.

No, this is not the case WCH. On the contrary, what triggers the separation is being indoctrinated by other Christians who know their bible better, and who feed them lies about the Catholic faith. I was one of those. I had never studied the scripture, or the catechism, and never looked into the doctrines I opposed.

I knew enough that I left.

That remains to be seen by the rest of us.

It does not have to be much. I knew my prayers, and some basics, but my faith was in a very childlike state. I had never moved beyond CCD classes.

I know it is; I’m a former Catholic. And I’m that because of what I know.

So, ya gonna elaborate, or keep beating around the shrub?

Works righteousness.

Ok, good. Can you explain what you mean by this? It would be good if you could show in the Catechism, but any other Catholic source will do.

 

[guanophore]

The JWs and LDS say the same thing.

They claim to have left the JW and LDS because they did not understand their faith? I did not know that.

When they come back (if they do) is it because they studied their way back to their JW or LDS faith?

Define “the Catholic Church produced the Bible.” After I see your definition I might give you an answer.

At the time of Christ, what constituted the authorized texts for the Jews was in dispute. The Sadducees only accepted the Torah, but the Pharisees accepted the Law, the Prophets, the Psalms and the “writings” (historical and wisdom books). Some rejected the Deuterocanon because they did not believe it was penned in Hebrew (a misconception corrected by the discovery of originals at the Dead Sea).

Jesus and the Apostles used the Alexandrian Septuagint, so this is what passed into the Church as the authorized canon. In 382 AD it was bound together with 27 books written by early Catholics forming the NT. Prior to that time, the Septuagint was not bound with the NT.

Where did Jesus and the Apostles define the canon?

The same place they defined all the doctrines of the faith - in their practice and teachings. Most of the NT quotes are from the Septuagint.

No. It’s too involved. But you can find everything in the CCC.

So, what brings you to CAF?

 

[PRmerger]

No. It’s too involved. But you can find everything in the CCC.

I just searched “works righteousness” in the CCC and this is what I found:

ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=works+righteousness&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

So, if you’re opposed to the CC on “works righteousness” it would help if you could tell us exactly what you believe the CC teaches on this.

 

[WCH]

This would have been very obvious to the early Christians who spoke Koine Greek. But the reformers kind of lost that meaning somewhere in their theology.

No they didn’t. They were proficient in the Greek language and understood Greek verb tenses.

 

[WCH]

I just searched “works righteousness” in the CCC and this is what I found:

ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=works+righteousness&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

So, if you’re opposed to the CC on “works righteousness” it would help if you could tell us exactly what you believe the CC teaches on this.

You said you were finished talking to me.

I trust you’ll keep your word and not respond to anymore of my posts.

 

[WCH]

They claim to have left the JW and LDS because they did not understand their faith? I did not know that.

No, they claim as you do that those who left their faith did so because of lack of understanding.

IOW, same old song, different singer.

 

[WCH]

At the time of Christ, what constituted the authorized texts for the Jews was in dispute. The Sadducees only accepted the Torah, but the Pharisees accepted the Law, the Prophets, the Psalms and the “writings” (historical and wisdom books). Some rejected the Deuterocanon because they did not believe it was penned in Hebrew (a misconception corrected by the discovery of originals at the Dead Sea).

Jesus and the Apostles used the Alexandrian Septuagint, so this is what passed into the Church as the authorized canon. In 382 AD it was bound together with 27 books written by early Catholics forming the NT. Prior to that time, the Septuagint was not bound with the NT.

Based on that definition I have to reject your assertion.