If I convert to orthodoxy will I go to hell?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jragzz123
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hume said:
Would you feel the same way if it were a Muslim asking about converting to Catholicism?
Click to expand...
Let’s put it this way.
Would YOU do anything you thought would send you to Hell?
I certainly wouldn’t.
I don’t have any desire to be separated from my God.

That being said, the road to conversion is often long and bumpy and takes a lot of learning and praying and consultation. It’s not something to be taken lightly.
The OP seems to be considering a course of action amd is concerned it will send them to Hell. There seems to be a considerable knowledge gap in regards to salvation and the nature of mortal sin. They need to get that cleared up.

If a Muslim asked me if converting to Catholicism would send them to Hell, (if Moslems even “have” Hell), I would try to suss them out about their Moslem beliefs, and what they know about Catholic beliefs, etc. I don’t want to denigrate their religion, even though I don’t agree with their theology.
I simply don’t have a pat answer for that question. 🙂

However, I used to work with a lovely Coptic Orthodox lady who was a devotee of a spiritual Coptic monk who said TV watching would send you Straight To Hell.
And yet, she would watch TV on her break at work.
So I casually suggested she didn’t agree with the monk, but she insisted she did. So I asked her “then why are watching TV?”.
Her answer? “Because there’s nothing else to do.”

I chalked up that conversation to language barrier because English wasn’t her first language.
 
Jragzz123 said:
The more I look into church history the more I’m drawn to orthodoxy. The only reservation I have is that I think it seems like Jesus did establish Peter as the head of the church (though I’m starting to question this as well). I know that Rome lifted excommunication of the East so if I converted and was wrong about orthodoxy being right would I go to hell?
Click to expand...
If you leave the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy while believing/knowing that Jesus did establish Peter (and his successors) as the head of the Church, then YES, you risk hell.

You may not burn in Gehenna (aka capital-H “Hell”), but you could wind up in Hades (aka lowercase-h “hell”).

If you have a drawing to Eastern spirituality, I highly suggest you seek out one of the Eastern Catholic Churches, which are in communion with Rome.

God Bless
 
Last edited:
Genesis315 said:
Schism is a mortal sin with the usual conditions, and converting to an EO Church would certainly be the sin of schism.
Click to expand...
Difficult to commit a mortal sin when it’s someone’s conviction that what they are doing is good, though, no? If someone converts to EO because they want to get a second marriage but realize it is not a good thing to do to leave the Catholic Church, well, that would be suspect. If they convert because they are convinced that the EO is the true church, then they are confused, and full knowledge is not present. I think this seems to be the OP’s situation.
 
Last edited:
Hume said:
Moreover, if God is Muslim, then it’s a moot discussion. We’re all doomed.
Click to expand...
If you want to play Pascal’s Wager, see Surahs 2:62 and 5:69. A Muslim has no more assurance of salvation than a Jew or Christian — everything is subject to the absolute discretionary will of Allah.
 
Last edited:
My favorite presentation of Pascal was in The Simpsons.

Marge mad at Homer because he didn’t want to go to church.

“But Marge! What if we picked the wrong god?!? By going we’re only making him more angry!”
 
😆 Classic Homer. There was an episode they became Catholics that was pretty funny.

Oh but don’t worry if you’re a Jew or Christian: you’re making Allah much angrier by not having any faith.

As for other gods, making them angry doesn’t seem to have much consequence other than perhaps getting reincarnated again.
 
Last edited:
spiritualsamurai said:
They disagree with the Catholic term in the Nicene Creed “Filioque”. They do not believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, but believe the Holy Spirit proceeds only from the Father.
Click to expand...
Catholics believe this as well, assuming you mean “proceeds from” as “originates from”.

Double procession of the Holy Spirit is a heresy, and most translations of the Filioque make it sound like Catholics believe in it. We don’t. Moreover, the Latin Church did not have the authority to add to the Creed.

I’m 100% Catholic, but I have to acknowledge that the Latin Church is entirely to blame for the schism.
 
Lobster_Johnson said:
As for the Filioque… Eh. The biggest problem is that the Latin Church had no authority to add it. Doing so was in direct defiance of an ecumenical council.
Click to expand...
Can an Ecumenical Council’s disciplinary sanctions bind a future Ecumenical Council? I do not think you will find any approved theological manual that would say it could. Just like popes cannot bind future popes in disciplinary matters.
 
Last edited:
The Filioque was not added via ecumenical council, and it is still debated whether there were any true ecumenical councils held after the schism. Most “ecumenical councils” were really just Latin synods.
 
Lobster_Johnson said:
The Filioque was not added via ecumenical council, and it is still debated whether there were any true ecumenical councils held after the schism. Most “ecumenical councils” were really just Latin synods.
Click to expand...
Obviously we would disagree: we’d say there’s been many more Ecumenical Councils than just the 7.
 
Lobster_Johnson said:
It is our disposition towards God’s light that makes it heaven or hell for us individually. They are not separate places where we “go”.
Click to expand...
That doesn’t make any sense. Also, Luke 16:

[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. [23] And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: [24] And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. [25] And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

[22] “Abraham’s bosom”: The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ had opened heaven by his death.

[26] And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither.
 
Last edited:
That’s interesting. I wonder if we ever reunite if a reordered understanding of ecumenical councils would happen in the Roman church. Although since Vatican I we now believe the Pope does not need any other bishop in order to declare and define dogma.
 
As a former Anglican convert to Orthodoxy who has been struggling with his conversion for years now I would caution you, the grass is not greener in Orthodoxy. Aesthetically I am drawn to traditional Roman Rite Catholicism, but have grown to see the dangers of an overly cataphatic and apophatic approach to theology: Catholicism likes to spell everything out and leaves little room for the mystery of God, while the Orthodox hardly spell anything out and end up with perplexing ambiguity. At the present I am seeing that both systems, taken to their extremes are out of balance and need each other to regain health. Another issue is polity: Rome’s Papocentrism has devolved into Papolatry for many Catholics and is causing an implosion (especially with the series of questionable acts from the Vatican as of late), whereas Orthodoxy’s Conciliarity has devolved into something treacherously close to Protestantism, (every Church for itself) causing an explosion and the inability to hold any kind of binding Council with authority.

I have also struggled with the opposite direction: if I convert to Catholicism will I be damned? According to most traditional Orthodox, yes, they would even consider it apostasy that can barely be cleansed except through martyrdom. So be very prayerful, cautious and remember we are all seeking Christ, but ancient religions and “modern” man do not coexist easily, which should call us all to greater humility as we see how broken and fractured our spiritual state is in these times.

Right now my “working” theory is that both Rome and the Orthodox are true but need each other, like two parents whom you dearly love, and who deeply love each other, yet have been through an acrimonious divorce and yet are trying to convert or dominate the other to accept their views. Rather what is needed is humility, charity and forgiveness. Only God can judge the human heart and place it in the Kingdom of Heaven (a real place) or Hell (another very real place).

May God illumine your path and lead you to salvation.
 
@Jragzz123

For what my advice is worth, remember that in the past you have been wanting to join an Eastern Catholic Church, the SSPX, among other things. Now you’re considering becoming Orthodox.

Why not just remain Catholic and try and decide what you truly want before jumping to extremes?
 
Last edited:
PilgrimMichelangelo said:
Catholicism likes to spell everything out and leaves little room for the mystery of God…
Click to expand...
I would say that I mostly find this idea that everything is spelled out in relation to the Latin Rite, which is not Catholicism as a whole, and that it is in response to the many past heresies and the ongoing combatation of more and resurging heresies.

I feel like the natural way people deal with people getting confused, starting to wander from orthodox positions, defending from people nitpicking actions/beliefs, and working through ideas is to write things out with different ideas and ways of approaching the question. Not to mention most of the people want whatever they believe in to have “all” the answers. The non-believers I’ve had to deal with questions from (mostly Atheist) would absolutely turn and walk away as soon as you even mention the words “It’s a mystery.” as an answer to their question. They’d see it as a cop-out and a turning off of the brain. Some attempt must be made to explain even if you have to say “This isn’t 1:1, but here’s how you can approach it to see its logic.” Sometimes I wish I could just answer “It’s a mystery” because then I wouldn’t have to deal with defending/explaining how the analogy or language fails, but society it is what it is currently.

It’s not to say that there isn’t mystery in the Latin Rite, there surely is, but a difference of language and way of dealing with cultures developed. The Eastern Rites all have their way of approaching and talking about things for the same reason. They’ve had different cultures and mindsets which they encountered as their tradition has gone through the years.

This writing things out is dangerous for some though; as is seen on these forums. It can cause great confusion when people start picking and choosing what they read and pitting it against the Church.
 
@Kei, @RoseScented Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. 🙂 I should have clarified and said the Latin Rite, but was generalizing since it is the majority rite in the Catholic Church which is known for its exceedingly thorough cataphatic theology (thinking of St. Thomas Aquinas, Councils of Trent, Vatican I, Vatican II, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Papal Encyclicals, and the numerous documents that emanate from the Holy See), as opposed to the Orthodox reliance on apophatic theology which can lead to a negative attitude towards definition beyond the first Seven Ecumenical Councils and in popular piety is marked by the great reverence of the traditionalist Orthodox for St. Gregory Palamas who they see as refuting overly cataphatic (academic) theology.

As one Orthodox priest seeking the Middle Way of the Fathers said, “We need cataphatic and apophatic theology in a healthy tension.”

My struggle is just with the extremes of the two ways which present themselves as the “only” way, the “correct” way…

May God save us all. Pray for me.
 
PilgrimMichelangelo said:
I should have clarified and said the Latin Rite
Click to expand...
I presumed so, and am Latin Rite. I find there’s quite a lot of mystery still left, though we try to go as far as we can with reason and Faith. Obviously extremes of this or any Christian attitude can lead to bad ends, since (to paraphrase GK Chesterton) Christianity is like a great balance of things, not too much this way, not too much that.

As a Catholic, it is very easy to think of East and West as, say, the dad and mom of a terrible divorce (though obviously I think the Church is correct in the true differences of doctrine and moral theology that may crop up).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top