If I convert to orthodoxy will I go to hell?

[catholic03]

Re the SSPX: 1) Only Catholic clergy can be members of the SSPX. 2) They are in an irregular canonical situation but are still part of the Catholic Church. C.f. CDF decree of 1996.

Regardless of anyone’s views of the situation, what I meant was that he wanted to become a full time SSPX attendee (I think he thought he should join an SSPX Francisan Third Order, whatever that is).

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

@Genesis315
Objectively I’ll take your word for it. Subjectively it depends on knowledge and will as I am sure you are aware. I wish on this forum people would say subjectively something is a mortal sin. Only God and the sinner and sometimes the confessor knows it something is a mortal sin in a particular case. The church has never declared that anyone is in hell. I am sure there are lots of people there but we don’t know who excepting the bad angles and the rich man!

I would submit that sometimes, only God knows. The sinner may not know, and I seriously question whether the priest can always know. Nobody can read your mind and heart except God. We sinners are notoriously bad at knowing our own minds and hearts sometimes. I know I am.

I really think the best way is to go to confession often, confess your sins the best way you know how, have universal sorrow for all your sins, and leave the rest in the Hands of God. As long as you do that, when you leave the confessional, the sins are gone, whether mortal or venial, doesn’t matter.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

A Third Order is a group of laypeople affiliated with a particular Order. Example: St. Catherine of Siena was a Mantellate - a laywoman affiliated with the Dominican Order. She was not a Dominican nun even though most pictures show her in a habit (it’s a Mantellate habit).

 

[catholic03]

Yes, that’s why I was confused that he wanted to join an ‘SSPX Third Order’.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Where I used to attend retreat, the SSPX priests would have information on religious life and the SSPX Third Order. I couldn’t join the SSPX Third Order because (among other things) one of their requirements is to not watch TV.

 

[ziapueblo]

I sure as heck hope not because I did lol!

In all seriousness, I never saw it as a “conversion“, rather, a change in upper management. My Orthodox priest never saw it as a “conversion” either because he recognizes Roman Catholic sacraments as valid.

Try reading Unitatis Redintegratio and Ut Unum Sint, as well as the Balamand Statement. My take is that the Roman Catholic point of view is the Orthodox are not in full communion with Rome but, again, my take, and many, many Catholics I know (both Latin and Eastern), part of the same first millennium Church that was in communion. We want, wish, and pray for full communion but right now we are separated, and again, from the mentioned readings, both parties are to blame.

ZP

 

[Jragzz123]

If you abandon the Catholic faith, you will be on the wrong road… It will not lead you to heaven, but to hell because there is no salvation for those who knowingly leave the Catholic Church and embrace a man-made faith.

Orthodoxy wasn’t man made either though. It seems to me that both the Catholic Church and orthodoxy are true and the only reason both churches teach that if you leave to go to the other you’ll go to hell is to maintain social control and power. I think both need to humble themselves.

 

[ziapueblo]

But it is defined by ethnic boundaries.

In my “Greek” Orthodox Church, the non-Greeks outnumber the “Greeks” 4 to 1, and, those the under Greek generation have all been in “mixed marriages” we non-Greeks probably outnumber them by even more. Our priest is a non-Greek Protestant convert (granted, he married a Greek ).

ZP

 

[Jragzz123]

I haven’t wanted to join the SSPX third order. I think SSPX is too rad trad ¯_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ziapueblo]

They disagree with the Catholic term in the Nicene Creed “Filioque”.

I’ve never been to a Byzantine Catholic Church that says the Filioque.

They do not believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, but believe the Holy Spirit proceeds only from the Father.

We believe what the Creed says. Read St Maximus the Confessor, that’s what we hold to.

Additionally, even the Orthodox believe that the Bishop of Rome is the leader/head of the Church, but they have a heretical understanding of this teaching.

We do not believe that the Pope of Rome is the “head” of the Church, his Petrine ministry, but not supreme and immediate jurisdiction over the whole Church.

They are outside the Church, which is the only path to Heaven which we know of.

Try reading Unitatis Redintegratio and Ut Unum Sint, as well as the Balamand Statement. Both Churches are not in full communion but the Orthodox outside the Church? You Church acknowledges our apostolic succession and sacraments.

ZP

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Re the 3 sentences in your reply: No, no and yes.

 

[TK421]

The more I look into church history the more I’m drawn to orthodoxy. The only reservation I have is that I think it seems like Jesus did establish Peter as the head of the church (though I’m starting to question this as well). I know that Rome lifted excommunication of the East so if I converted and was wrong about orthodoxy being right would I go to hell?

Becoming schismatic with full knowledge and consent is a mortal sin.

Peace.

 

[JanR]

God knows your heart. Trust him.

 

[catholic03]

I agree that the SSPX is not to be trusted.

But you did create a thread about wanting to join an ‘SSPX Franciscan Third Order’.

 

[Jragzz123]

I made a thread inquiring about it because it was interesting and seemed like a more authentic interpretation of Francis’ rule of life than the modern secular Franciscans. But the more I learned about SSPX the more anti I became lol

 

[catholic03]

Anyway, have you made any decisions?

If you’re in the United States, Canada, or even Australia, I bet there will be a Byzantine Catholic Church (which is the rite used by the Eastern Orthodox) near you.

You’re lucky. Where I am, the nearest proper Byzantine Catholic parish church is 10 hours away by car (plenty of Latin rite churches though so I’m fine).

 

[AlNg]

“We declare, say , define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” - Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302

I thought that this infallible declaration has been changed since now it is generally accepted that Jews and Eastern Orthodox and others can be saved even though they are not subject to the Roman Pontiff?

 

[Jragzz123]

Yea I reached out to a Melkite parish and Ruthenian parish and asked to speak to the priests there. Thank you all for the advice

 

[Paul_Edwards]

But the more I learned about SSPX the more anti I became lol

Then I would not consider orthodoxy, as the SSPX is certainly closer to the fullness of truth and to tradition than they are. In fact I would recommend even reading an SSPX article about orthodoxy. As well as the issues mentioned above by others, you do realize that orthodoxy allows divorce?

https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/orthodox-church-practice-divorce

 

[Paul_Edwards]

I thought that this infallible declaration has been changed since now it is generally accepted that Jews and Eastern Orthodox and others can be saved even though they are not subject to the Roman Pontiff?

That is impossible, those who reject infallible statements are wrong whoever them people might be. On the one hand it has always been accepted that we can never judge the state of any individuals soul, that is a subjective matter. However that what is objective and public knowledge still remains the same ie that submission to the pontiff is necessary for salvation.

This means that refusal of submission to the Successor of Peter is a grave sin, although God will decide who to hold accountable for that sin and who not to based on their intentions and knowledge which only God sees.

While we cannot be certain who is in heaven on a case by case basis, the church would certainly never publicly canonize somebody who died in a state of schism even today, because what is objective has not changed, it’s just that we acknowledge that there is the subjective and that some information is reserved to God.

There is the external forum and the internal forum, we have to be careful not to mix the two up.