If I lived circa 170 AD......

[Noesis]

Would I have gone to the present day CC or would I have gone to one of the present day PC’s?

You wouldn’t have gone to a present-day anything, but would have been just as restricted to the local Christian culture as everyone else. Now, what would this local Christian culture have been, and has there been a source or sources in antiquity that have recorded it? For all that you or I know, your modern perceptions of Christianity might have been utterly shocked upon seeing the application of archaic Christianity in any given local culture.

The best that we can tell today of any antiquated religion or religious practice*, is to adhere to writings and to archaeology from which we then attempt to reconstruct such things. But note always, that such a reconstruction will always be highly localised; and what applies in one geographical area, may not, and usually does not apply in another. Moreover, what the educated persons who recorded and published their ideas believed, and what the masses of uneducated plebeians believed, are often two utterly different things.**

*Edit: Certainly, I am not speaking here only of early Christianity.
**Edit: Was early Christianity a set of beliefs which did not in the slightest differ from what Christ taught, perverted here and there by anti-Christian error? Or was it a religion whose ideas varied just as much as all other religion in the Roman Empire, with one set of ideas winning out over the others as the ages passed, and as correct doctrine and dogma were mandated? Can we ever really know? Again, we are limited to our sources, because we are attempting to reconstruct an ancient set of cultures. The difficulty of this cannot be exaggerated, and posing the question as being one with an obvious answer is, in my opinion, utterly unfair and perhaps even ignorant.

 

[Noesis]

If we were having this dicussion in 170 and i was a gnostic and you were a catholic how would you convince me what the essentials were or for that matter what writings were authoritative? What norm would you use to make the judgement on which writings were authoritative and which teachings were true?

This would depend on the philosophical positions of a person. That is, a person would have to have a certain grasp of the schools of Greek philosophy, if they were to answer questions as you have posed them. They would have to tell you what knowledge was, where it comes from, what the soul was, where it exists, how it is that the soul knows things, how the soul interacts with the body, how it controls the body, and manifold other things. They would also expect you to be conversant on such topics, and to be aware of the major ideas of the day on such things.

‘I know because someone told me, and I trust them’, is not necessarily a position which everyone in the ancient world would find to be convincing. This might, indeed, be viewed as the beginning of an argument defending superstition. Moreover, you’ve worded your questions in the way you were taught them: as a segue into apologetics. You (perhaps unintentionally) beg the question; because you think that someone in the ancient world would only ever believe something were true about the cosmos, if they were taught it by an institution with enough authority to teach about such things. Such thinking was alien to the educated writers of antiquity. According to Celsus, because of such a culture of thought, it should be regarded as ridiculous that the Christians allegedly taught, ‘do not question, only obey’; and that the taught such things to the poorest and least educated of the masses.

 

[joe370]

=Janet1983;7241254]Well you would have gone and found yourself a Christian congregation. Antioch sounds like a good place to look. Just make sure you stay clear of Rome.

Wow, you really dislike the CC in communion with Rome. All those churches, including the church in Rome and Antioch, were CC’s. Ignatius was from Antioch and he said:

*"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains . Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Marcus Aurelius’s law would just exile you and that isn’t quite as bad as falling prey to an angry stone-throwing mob, robberies, or assaults. And not being executed sound pretty decent to me as well.

That does not help…

For the future it’s a good advice to keep as far from Septimius Severus as possible. He was a pretty harsh persecutor and persecution also went on in Carthage, Alexandria, Rome and Corinth. You could be burned, confined, cruelly tortured or beheaded… or end up as a victim of a mob.

That does not help either…

Concerning you “c” remark. I don’t believe that the early Church had any resemblance of the Catholic Church today.

I don’t believe that the early Church had any resemblance of the Protestant churches today. That leave us with all man-made churches, if you are right.

So, your answer to the OP is: just pick any Christian congregation with the exception of the congregation in Rome? Well, that didn’t help either, but thanks for the feedback.

 

[jlhargus]

Concerning you “c” remark. I don’t believe that the early Church had any resemblance of the Catholic Church today.

As a fromer non-denominational fundamentalist Bible Church member, this is my Scriptural reasons and understanding for ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. The Church Christ is building from living stones with Peter as the VISIBLE ROCK of faith unity.

What the group gathered and SENT by Christ was called at any given time or place does not matter in the lest. What matters is continuity with that One SENT Fellowship. Scripture indicates, to be a valid minister one must be SENT, [Rm 10:14 …how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 how shall they preach EXCEPT THEY BE SENT?

[Lk 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that HE went out into a mountain to pray, and CONTINUED ALL NIGHT IN PRAYER to God. 13 And when it was day, **he called unto him his disciples: and OF THEM HE CHOSE TWELVE, whom also he NAMED APOSTLES;]

JN 17:18 As thou hast SENT ME into the world, even so have I ALSO SENT THEM into the world. 19 And for their sakes I SANCTIFY MYSELF, THAT THEY ALSO MIGHT BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE TRUTH. 20 NEITHER PRAY I FOR THESE ALONE, but FOR THEM ALSO WHICH shall BELIEVE ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD; 21 THAT THEY all may BE ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE that THOU hast SENT ME.

Christ chose, prayed for and SENT one specific VISIBLE group, the Apostles Fellowship, whom he sanctified through the truth. Hearing their word and being ONE in fellowship, with THEM, the world may believe the Father sent him. I don’t think Christ meant, he would only be with that fellowship and it would only be one, just while the apostles were alive, but to the end of the world.

Mt28:16 Then THE ELEVEN disciples WENT away into Galilee, INTO A MOUNTAIN where JESUS had APPOINTED them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And JESUS came and SPAKE UNTO THEM, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 GO ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING ** them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS whatsoever I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, ** I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, even UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. Amen.

The great commission to the Church, the apostles fellowship. Christ to whom all power in heaven and earth is given sent, with his authority, the apostles to TEACH ALL to observe ALL he taught. They were to go to ALL nations (universal, catholic). Only the apostles were sent to teach all nations, with the authority of Christ. Christ promised to be with them TILL THE END of the world. Those individuals would not be around till the end and Christ knew that. But their SENT successors in the Apostolic Fellowship would, by passing on their authority to teach, sanctify and rule, by laying on of hands from bishop to bishop, in an unbroken line, till the end.

DN 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGODM which shall never be destroyed and THE KINGDOM shall not be left to other people but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms and IT SHALL STAND FOR EVER,

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be CALLED THE SON OF THE HIGHEST and the Lord GOD SHALL GIVE unto HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID 33 And HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER and OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END.

[Lk22:29 And I APPOINT unto YOU A KINGDOM, AS MY FATHER hath APPOINTED unto ME; 30 THAT YE MAY EAT AND DRINK AT MY TABLE IN MY KINGDOM, and SIT ON THRONES JUDGING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL. 31 And THE LORD SAID, Simon, SIMON, behold, SATAN HATH DESIRED TO HAVE YOU, THAT HE MAY SIFT YOU AS WHEAT: 32 But I HAVE PRAYED FOR **THEE, that THY FAITH FAIL NOT: and WHEN thou art CONVERTED, STRENGTHEN THY BRETHREN.

The apostles sit on thrones judging, they also eat and drink at Christ’s table in his kingdom. Catholics are gathered in union with our bishops around the table of the Lord where we eat and drink, Christ’s body and blood, at every mass.

When Peter is converted HIS FAITH WILL NEVER FAIL, he is to STRENGTHEN ALL THE BRETHREN as Universal Pastor. Christ said Satan wanted to sift all the apostles (you plural) as wheat, but Christ prayed that only (you singular in the Greek) Peter’s faith fail not. This was said in the presents of the other apostles. Christ promised Peter’s faith alone would not fail, implying all must be in union and agree with the faith of Peter. Those not in union with Peter’s faith even though they have apostolic secession can teach error. My Bishop or any number of Bishops can teach error if not in union and agreement, with the successor of Peter.

JN 21:14-17 Jesus asked Peter three times, “do you love me more than these” [THESE, would be the other apostles. After being asked three times and replying three times, “yes”. Christ said to Peter, the first time, “feed MY lambs”, the second time, “feed MY sheep”, the third time, “feed MY sheep”. Peter is to feed ALL the sheep in Christ’s flock, not some, but ALL the sheep Christ has purchased with his blood, the lambs and the sheep, the young and the old, the great and the little ones.

[Acts2:41 Then **THEY THAT gladly **RECEIVED HIS WORD WERE BAPTIZED: AND **the same day there were **ADDED UNTO THEM **about three thousand souls. 42 And **THEY CONTINUED **stedfastly IN THE APOSTLES’ DOCTRINE and FELLOWSHIP, and in BREADKING OF BREAD, and in PRAYERS.] What were they added to? ONE VISABLE APOSTLIC FELLOWSHIP, ONE DOCTRINE, Breaking of Bread is another term for mass, and in prayers (liturgy). CONTINUED:

 

[jlhargus]

[1Cor1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. 10 Now I BESEECH YOU, BRETHREN, BY the name of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, that ye all SPEAK THE SAME THING, AND that there be NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU; but that ye BE PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER in the SAME MIND and IN THE SAME JUDGMENT.] One fellowship, one faith, one baptism, one Lord and God of all no matter where it is located in the world. Lk24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I SEND THE PROMISE OF MY FATHER: but TARRY ye IN the city of JERUSALEM, UNTIL YE BE ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH. Jn14:26 But the Comforter, which is THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, WHATSOEVER I HAVE SAID UNTO YOU. Jn16:13 Howbeit when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, IS COME, he WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Christ is speaking to the Apostolic Fellowship, who will be endued with power from on high, by whom the Church will be guided into all truth and teach all things whatsoever Christ said, through the sacrament of Holy Orders, an unbroken line of successors, by laying on of hands, till the end of the world.

Apostolic succession thru the sacrament of Holy Orders, ordination, by laying of hands, from the apostles to the bishops to bishops in an unbroken line till the END. [Hb13:7 **Remember them which HAVE THE RULE OVER YOU , who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Hb13:17 OBEY THEM THAT HAVE THE RULE OVER YOU, and SUBMIT yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.]

Ordination gives the GIFT of the Holy Spirit to enable ordained to fulfill his mission. [2Tim1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou STIR UP THE GIFT OF GOD, which is IN THEE BY the PUTTING ON OF MY HANDS. 7 For GOD HATH NOT GIVEN US THE SPIRIT OF FEAR; **BUT OF POWER, and of love, and of a sound mind.] [Tm4:2 PREACH THE WORD; be instant in season, out of season; REPROVE, REBUKE, EXHORT with all long suffering and doctrine.]

Titus1:5 FOR THIS CAUSE LEFT I THEE IN CRETE, that THOU SHOULDEST SET IN ORDER the THINGS that are WANTING, AND ORDAIN ELDERS IN EVERY CITY, AS I had APOINTED THEE.

Titus1:7 For A BISHOP must be blameless, as THE STEWARD OF GOD; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 HOLDING FAST THE FAITHFUL WORD AS HE HATH BEEN TAUGHT, THAT he may be able BY SOUND DOCTRINE both to EXHORT and TO CONVINCE the gainsayers.

Titus1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore REBUKE THEM SHARPLY, THAT THEY MAY BE SOUND IN THE FAITH;

Titus2:1 But SPEAK thou the THINGS WHICH BECOME SOUND DOCTRINE: 2 THAT the aged MEN BE sober, grave, temperate, SOUND IN FAITH, in charity, in patience.

Titus2:15 THESE things SPEAK, and EXHORT, and REBUKE WITH ALL AUTHORITY. Let no man despise thee.

Acts14:23 And WHEN THEY HAD ORDAINED them ELDERS IN EVERY CHURCH, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Acts20:28 TAKE HEED therefore unto yourselves, and TO ALL THE FLOCK, over the WHICH THE HOLY GHOST HATH MADE YOU OVERSEERS, TO FEED THE CHURCH OF GOD, which he hath PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

1 TIM 5:17 Let the elders that RULE well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the WORD AND DOCTRINE.

[1Tim4:13 Till I come, GIVE ATTENDANCE TO READING, to EXHORTATION, TO DOCTRINE. 14 NEGLECT NOT THE GIFT that is IN THEE, which was GIVEN thee by prophecy, WITH THE LAYING ON OF THE HANDS of the presbytery. 15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16 TAKE HEED UNTO THYSELF, and **UNTO THE DOCTRINE; CONTINUE IN THEM: for in DOING THIS thou SHALT both SAVE THYSELF, AND THEM THAT HEAR THEE.]

I cannot find a VALID minister in the New Covenant who was not ordained and SENT directly by Christ including Paul, or SENT by laying on of hands in the unbroken apostolic line, either by an apostle or one they ordained. [Except false teachers, who may even have been ordained by laying on of hands, but not SENT by the FELLOWSHIP. They GO OUT on their own authority, I have no doubt they used and thought scripture supported their theology.

[Acts15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard that CERTAIN which WENT OUT FROM US have troubled you with words SUBVERTING YOUR SOULS saying Ye must be circumcised and keep the law: to whom WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT] Jer23:21 I HAVE NOT SENT THESE PROPHETS, yet they ran: I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO THEM, yet they prophesied.] Those not sent are false teachers.] 1Jn4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God HEARTH US; he that is not of God heareth not US. HEREBY KNOW WE the spirit of TRUTH, AND the spirit of ERROR.]

 

[jlhargus]

CONTINUED: US would be the Church. The Bishops of the world in union with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) make up the Magisterium (that teaching authority SENT by ChrisT. Mt28:16-20 GO TEACH ALL NATIONS I AM WITH YOU TILL THE END). Their duty is to teach, sanctify and govern. Teach the Word of God, faith and morals, what we must believe and moral standards. Sanctify by preaching the Word of God and administering the sacraments, govern the Church for good order,

[Jn17:21 THAT THEY ALL MAY BE **ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.]

The Catholic Church continues steadfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship, in breaking of bread and in prayers, ACTS 2:42. The one fellowship Christ sent to teach all nations, all he commanded, Mt 28:20. He promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead them in all truth (not part but all) Jn 16:13. He that hears you hears me, LK 10:16, to those whom Christ send we must listen. If he neglect to hear the church treat him as a heathen, MT 18:17.

I do not rely on my understanding nor on that of any man, no matter how learned, who in the last analysis gives only his own opinion, although he could be right at times. I prefer the assurance of those Christ SENT to lead us in all truth, not hit and miss truth. To follow those, Christ has set over me, who have the gift of the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands in an unbroken line, to recall all Christ has taught. The Church to whom Christ promised the gates of hell shall never prevail against, Mt 16:18, the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth, 1 TM 3:14.

[Eph3:7 Whereof I WAS MADE A MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THE GIFT of the grace OF GOD given unto me BY the effectual WORKING OF HIS POWER. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And **TO MAKE ALL MEN SEE what is THE FELLOWSHIP of THE MYSTERY, which from the beginning of the world hath been HID IN GOD, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent THAT NOW unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places MIGHT BE KNOWN BY THE CHURCH the manifold wisdom of God,] [2Cor5:20 Now then **we are ambassadors for Christ, as though GOD did BESEECH YOU BY US: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.]

Two of the greatest brothers, Peter and Paul, went from Palestine to Rome, where both were martyred. The successor of Peter is the bishop of Rome, and holds the keys of the Davidic kingdom a type or foreshadowing of the regenerated and restored spiritual kingdom of Israel in the new covenant (Mt 19:28). Christ the Son of David is king in David’s line, who will build a house for God, (2Sam 7:12-14). Peter is the first minister (prime minister) [Isa22:19 I will drive you from your station 20 I will call my servant Eliakim 21 I will commit your government to his hand he shall be a father to the people of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah 22 And the key of the house of David will I lay on his shoulder so he shall open and none shall shut he shall shut and none shall open] Eliakim will be the new Prime Minster and called father of Jerusalem, in the Davidic Kingdom, he will succeed Shebna.

So in the regenerated spiritual Kingdom of David, of which Christ is now king, Peter is appointed First Minister and called father=pope in the new Jerusalem=Church. The keys indicate the holder has authority over the other royal ministers (or apostles) as they do not receive keys, also indicates the head office has successors. When the office is vacant it is filled by the King in David’s line, who is Christ, with another by giving of the keys. Jesus alluded to this passage when giving the keys to Peter, Mt 16.

Incidentally if Christ is King in David’s line, his mother, which all generations will call blessed, is Gebirah (Queen Mother) 1Kings 2:19. From Solomon the son of David, who built a house for God, there was an office of queen mother in the Dividic Kingdom, the type and foreshadowing of the regenerated spiritual Kingdom. The king Christ, the Son of David, is building a habitation for God of living stones. [Eph3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 **Unto him be glory IN THE CHURCH by Christ Jesus THROUGHOUT ALL AGES, world without end. Amen.] CONTINUED:

 

[jlhargus]

CONTINUED;

The Jerusalem Council sent a letter to Antioch, with it’s decision settling a doctrinal dispute, which said, [Acts15:28 For **it seemed good to the HOLY GHOST, and to US, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;] using their authority to bind and loose, Mt16:18. That magisterial teaching authority, SENT by Christ, speaks with the authority of Christ, guided by the Holy Spirit, and all Christians knew it. That’s why the decision was accepted with JOY and without dispute in Antioch, Acts15.

Paul even checked his teaching with that one fellowship. [Gal2:1 Then fourteen years after I WENT UP AGAIN TO JERUSALEM with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up BY REVELATION, and COMMUNICATED UNTO THEM that GOSPEL which I PREACH among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, LEST BY ANY MEANS I SHOULD run, or HAD RUN, IN VAIN.] Even though sent by Christ, Paul went by revealation to verify his teachings with the ONE Fellowship, to be sure he was not running in vain. Those SENT by Christ, to teach ALL NATIONS, ALL Christ commanded, till the END of the age, Mt28:16-20. The Apostolic Fellowship Christ promised the Holy Spirit would guide them into ALL TRUTH, Jn16:13. If individual Christians had the ability to be led into all truth, because they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we would all be one without disagreement. We can see that is not the case.

What did people do the first time the gospel was preached by Peter? Acts2:41 Then THEY THAT gladly RECEIVED HIS WORD were BAPTIZED: and the same day there WERE ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. 42 And THEY CONTINUED steadfastly IN the APOSTLES’ DOCTRINE and FELLOWSHIP, and in BREAKING OF BREAD (mass), and in PRAYERS. [Those that received his word were baptized. They were ADDED to the Church by baptism and CONTINUED steadfastly in the APOSTLES DOCTRINE, that they may ALL be One VISIBLE Holy Catholic Apostolic Fellowship, as Christ prayed in the garden. [Jn17:21 THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.] ]

1Cor 1:9 God is faithful you were called into THE FELLOWSHIP OF his Son JESUS CHRIST 10 I appeal to you BREATHREN by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that all of you AGREE that there be no dissensions among you that you BE UNITED in the same mind and THE SAME JUDGMENT. 1Jn 4:6 We are of God Whoever knows God LISTENS TO US and he who is not of God DOES NOT LISTEN TO US BY THIS WE KNOW the spirit of TRUTH and the spirit of ERROR [Therefore we do not listen to men, the spirit of error, to be taken in by false teachers and every wind of doctine men can devise through sola scriptura, that tradition of men made a doctrine of God around 1520 AD.]

[Mk 9:38 And JOHN answered him, SAYING, MASTER, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and HE FOLLOWETH NOT **US: and WE FORBAD HIM, because HE FOLLOWETH NOT US. 39 But JESUS SAID, FORBID HIM NOT: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against US is on OUR PART.] Christ established, and SENT one fellowship to TEACH the whole world till the end, promising to be WITH THEM ALWAYS. The Holy Spirit works thru those separated denominations not in visible union with the Apostles Fellowship. Uniting them to the ONE fellowship in a spiritual way. All Christ’s children are spiritually, although not visibly nor holding the apostles doctrine fully, united to the Church or body of Christ. [1Tm3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself IN THE HOUSE OF GOD, which is THE CHURCH of the living God, THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF TRUTH.] There can’t be thousands of households of God teaching contradicting doctrine. There is only ONE VISIBLE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD, that is the pillar and ground of truth. that SENT by Christ, the apostles fellowship, and their successors.

 

[meedo]

This is my last thread non-Catholics…I think… Always wondering, so who knows…If I lived circa 170 AD and wanted to follow Jesus by belonging to the church that He founded, (I will build MY church) - where would I have gone? Would I have gone to the present day CC or would I have gone to one of the present day PC’s? Please don’t tell me that I would have gone to the catholic church with a small c; that makes no sense to me. By the way, I have really enjoyed dialogging with everyone here at CAF…

If I lived circa 170 AD… i would be less stressed. I would be sucking on a sugar cane bar by the nile some where… no traffic… no internet and no mobile phones!!!

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[meedo]

I need a vacation!

 

[jakasaki]

I need a vacation!

 

[Mikeoffaith]

This is my last thread non-Catholics…I think… Always wondering, so who knows…If I lived circa 170 AD and wanted to follow Jesus by belonging to the church that He founded, (I will build MY church) - where would I have gone? Would I have gone to the present day CC or would I have gone to one of the present day PC’s? Please don’t tell me that I would have gone to the catholic church with a small c; that makes no sense to me. By the way, I have really enjoyed dialogging with everyone here at CAF…

The answer is two fold. The primary is you would have gone to the Orthodox church. But aside from that, if you lived circa 170 AD, in 2010 you would most likely be dead and the question of which church you went to would be unimportant to most of us.

 

[joe370]

The answer is two fold. The primary is you would have gone to the Orthodox church. But aside from that, if you lived circa 170 AD, in 2010 you would most likely be dead and the question of which church you went to would be unimportant to most of us.

I give you a hypothetical (If I lived circa 170 AD and wanted to follow Jesus by belonging to the church that He founded, (I will build MY church) - to which church in the world today, would I have gone?

In response you say: “you would most likely be dead and the question of which church you went to would be unimportant to most of us.”

It’s a hypothetical; Why would I be dead? Perhaps you could please answer my hypothetical question?

 

[joe370]

If I lived circa 170 AD… i would be less stressed. I would be sucking on a sugar cane bar by the nile some where… no traffic… no internet and no mobile phones!!!

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

LOL…

 

[Mikeoffaith]

I give you a hypothetical (If I lived circa 170 AD and wanted to follow Jesus by belonging to the church that He founded, (I will build MY church) - to which church in the world today, would I have gone?

In response you say: “you would most likely be dead and the question of which church you went to would be unimportant to most of us.”

It’s a hypothetical; Why would I be dead? Perhaps you could please answer my hypothetical question?

I did, you simply either overlooked the answer or ignored it.

But hypothetically speaking if you lived circa 170, then in 2010 you would be hypothetically dead and hypothetically the question of which hypothetical church you belonged to would be unimportant to most of us. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

 

[GEddie]

The answer is two fold. The primary is you would have gone to the Orthodox church.

That would depend on where he lived, of course; the churches in Rome or in Spain would not have been “Orthodox” as we understand that term now.

But aside from that, if you lived circa 170 AD, in 2010 you would most likely be dead and the question of which church you went to would be unimportant to most of us.

Tell that to Enoch!!!

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

It’s a hypothetical; Why would I be dead?

Because in any known conditions, your human body, would not withstand 1,840 years of cumulative chemical entropy without going nonrespiratory.

Now, if in AD171, GOD gave you the gift of being a Christian Enoch and took you up to Heaven breathing, all bets would be off. In fact, such an event would be so deep into Church history that everybody would know where you had gone to church

God Bless and ICXC NIKA!

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Because in any known conditions, your human body, would not withstand 1,840 years of cumulative chemical entropy without going nonrespiratory.

Now, if in AD171, GOD gave you the gift of being a Christian Enoch and took you up to Heaven breathing, all bets would be off. In fact, such an event would be so deep into Church history that everybody would know where you had gone to church

God Bless and ICXC NIKA!

I agree completely!

 

[joe370]

I did, you simply either overlooked the answer or ignored it.

But hypothetically speaking if you lived circa 170, then in 2010 you would be hypothetically dead and hypothetically the question of which hypothetical church you belonged to would be unimportant to most of us. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Forget about 2010. If I lived circa AD 33 to which church in the world today would I belong? Pretend I could jump into a time machine and go back in time…LOL…To what church would I belong? Would it be the Eastern Orthodox church or the Catholic Church? If your answer is the EOC could back that claim up, I mean if you want to? I came real close to joining the EOC by the way…

 

[GEddie]

Forget about 2010. If I lived circa AD 33 to which church in the world today would I belong? Pretend I could jump into a time machine and go back in time…LOL…To what church would I belong?

If you had lived in AD33, there would be only one church for you to be a part of. In Jerusalem.

The rest of the question is somewhat meaningless, as the churches developing in those times had none of the superabundant cultural and philosophical overburden that today divide E.O. and Catholic believers. They spoke Greek (if they did not speak Hebrew) and had autonomous leaderships, but were united in faith and practice.

Would it be the Eastern Orthodox church or the Catholic Church? If your answer is the EOC could back that claim up, I mean if you want to? I came real close to joining the EOC by the way…

ICXC NIKA

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Forget about 2010. If I lived circa AD 33 to which church in the world today would I belong? Pretend I could jump into a time machine and go back in time…LOL…To what church would I belong? Would it be the Eastern Orthodox church or the Catholic Church? If your answer is the EOC could back that claim up, I mean if you want to? I came real close to joining the EOC by the way…

In 33 AD you would most likely belong to your local synagogue.