If I'm Baptized, Shouldn't I Have The Right To Communion Too?

[1voice]

for clarity… you attributed a quote to me, above, that was actually posted by pablope.

The Jedi mind trick worked just as the the author intended.

He took a powerful Christian testimony… that went unmentioned til I brought it … as an example of the power of dedicated Christians … added to the story using assumptions weighted heavily in favor of his paradigm … and yours … and … like magic! … has you saying that his wisdom and insight trumps reality… and sucks the wind right out of what those precious martyrs and their families gave their lives for.

…The direct attack that someone attempted above … saying, that those people werent true Christians … didnt work … so now the strategy is to create an image of these people not really being too spiritual …and comparing it to a “created/ assumed” image of true spirituality (some assumptions are blessed … this one… not so much).
Its a rabbit trail designed to diminish the value of what these people accomplished and prove that it was actually other people … that the author introduced into the story … that accomplished anything of real spiritual value.
Nice try … I’ll give it a 7

 

[JHow]

And some historical Calvinists as well, one might add. The so-called “fenced table”.

 

[KathleenGee]

And who are the preachers keeping the Christians in the Amazon jungle and Cali away from the Church Christ alone instituted?

If these people want to receive communion but can’t, most likely it is the preachers who have an adversarial relationship towards Catholicism…bait them with the reality of Holy Communion in our cjust can’t walk in to receive.

The foundation of Protestantism is protest. And I think this particular brand is sourced in America.

I remember my missionary experience where there were few Americans. The Adventists had come in and were telling the natives that the Catholics worshipped statues and had alot of money because the priests were driving jeeps. I spent time with them, mostly listening to them and not rebuking the Adventists. It wasn’t before long that they became baptized in the Catholic Church.

 

[JHow]

If someone does not believe the teaching of the real presence, why would they want to participate in communion as practiced in the catholic church? Each time we receive we assent “amen” to the “body of christ”. If you do not really believe this teaching, you would be lying when you said “amen”.

 

[kiki_the_alto]

I’m actually quite surprised to note that nobody has mentioned to the OP that to find the Holy Spirit working in and through people should never surprise us, no matter what their specific beliefs are. This has been a great discussion, and everyone has brought some excellent points to the table, so I thought I’d address things from this angle.

Yesterday and today’s first reading from the Mass covered much of the story of Jonah. In reading the actual book, as opposed to the overview of the plot we get as kids in CCD/ Sunday School/“Bible stories for Kids” books, I realized that the pagan sailors on the boat to Tarshish were portrayed by the author as having some fairly outstanding virtues. Among these is the virtue of religion. Though these men were pagan and didn’t fully grasp the truth, their first reaction to danger was to pray and seek help from “whatever was out there.” Furthermore, when Jonah volunteered to be thrown overboard, they didn’t just say “Ok, great” and do it. They asked forgiveness of Jonah’s God for doing it, just in case he was really an innocent man, and they were finally won over to the truth. The Holy Spirit was at work in these men, guiding them to seek after truth and then using them to God’s purposes, getting Jonah to that transformative “death” in the fish’s belly, through the baptism-like waters of the ocean, and out onto the shore a new man.

To get to my point for the OP, being used by the Holy Spirit to make some good in the world is a wonderful thing but it is not in the least limited to those who hold and teach the full truth. If the HS can use pagans, like the sailors or like Pharaoh in Exodus, or Cyrus sending the Exiles home, then how much MORE can He use those who teach a big percentage of the truth (even if it is less than the 100% of the Church Christ founded). The martyrs and the stadiums full of praying Christians you speak of are doing amazing things and Christ is working through them, but to equate that to having the truth is a mistake. The martyrs and stadium-going prayer warriors are part of a faith community that has rejected the true Eucharist…the Eucharist and the Church that experiences it haven’t rejected them. I cannot approach the Eucharist merely because I’m Christian or because the Spirit has done great things for me and through me. That doesn’t take faith, it takes grace.

 

[jlhargus]

for clarity… you attributed a quote to me, above, that was actually posted by pablope. The Jedi mind trick worked just as the the author intended.

He took a powerful Christian testimony… that went unmentioned til I brought it … as an example of the power of dedicated Christians … added to the story using assumptions weighted heavily in favor of his paradigm … and yours … and … like magic! … has you saying that his wisdom and insight trumps reality… and sucks the wind right out of what those precious martyrs and their families gave their lives for.

…The direct attack that someone attempted above … saying, that those people werent true Christians … didnt work … so now the strategy is to create an image of these people not really being too spiritual …and comparing it to a “created” image of true spirituality. Its a rabbit trail designed to diminish the value of what these people accomplished and prove that it was actually other people … that the author introduced into the story … that accomplished anything of real spiritual value.
Nice try … I’ll give it a 7

JL: I apologize for misquoting you. The answer, to the question posed, is still verse 6.

 

[Nevermore22]

I understand that you are trying to make the point that “Catholics are unfair/not Christian because they would not allow all those people who have died in Cali and the Amazon to recieved Communion.” I get it.

But by your own logic, the Orthodox Churches, some Lutheran Churches, and some High Anglican Churches are just as bad for refusing Communion to those previous examples. But you haven’t even mentioned them. I am honestly curious as to why. Can you fill me in?

Thanks.
In Christ through Mary,
Nevermore

 

[JHow]

For historical reasons as you mention, the orthodox and eastern churches are simply less well-known here, hence they receive less “attention” of this sort.

 

[ufamtobie]

Why is it wrong for a Protestant to take Communion in a Catholic Church? We all belive in God and the wonderful things his Son did for humanity. I understand that it is the blood and body of Christ that is given in that piece of leavened bread and sip of wine. Why am I not worthy? Please help me understand.
Thank You, God Bless.
Protestant Me.

Hey there Protestant,

Not just because one is Catholic can he or she receive the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of the Lord in the Most Holy Eucharist, in order to receive the Eucharist one has to be without Mortal sin and Yes, of course a Catholic to. To erase the Mortal sin form one, one has to go to confession confess their sin to a priest, then after, they can receive the Body and Blood of Christ.

Believing in God/Jesus is Good but not believing in His one and only Church he established is a bad thing. A good Catholic has to believe in God but then he/she also has to believe in His Church, one can not separate the two.

Why you are not worthy? Like I said above “One can not separate the two.”

Protestant, By your writing this thread I feel you want to truly eat and drink the Body and Blood of Our Savior, am I correct? If I am, Then do so, become Catholic come Home!

Ufam Tobie

 

[KathleenGee]

Agree…

Who is holding people back from coming into full communion with Christ’s Church???

 

[Nicea325]

Why is it wrong for a Protestant to take Communion in a Catholic Church? We all belive in God and the wonderful things his Son did for humanity. I understand that it is the blood and body of Christ that is given in that piece of leavened bread and sip of wine. Why am I not worthy? Please help me understand.
Thank You, God Bless.
Protestant Me.

Does one have a right to into heaven simply because he or she is baptized?

 

[KathleenGee]

Good point…seems today that everything is ‘why not?’…I want it, I am entitled to it…

‘I think, therefore I am’.

Interesting origin of absolute relativism replacing, ‘I Am Who Am’.

 

[JonNC]

=KathleenGee;8431324] The foundation of Protestantism is protest. And I think this particular brand is sourced in America.

The foundation of Lutheranism was the doctrine of Justification. The “protest” was against government attempts to limit religious exercise - the Second Diet of Speyer, 1529

I remember my missionary experience where there were few Americans. The Adventists had come in and were telling the natives that the Catholics worshipped statues and had alot of money because the priests were driving jeeps. I spent time with them, mostly listening to them and not rebuking the Adventists. It wasn’t before long that they became baptized in the Catholic Church.

When I hear a salesman bash his competition, it always makes me visit the competition.

Jon

 

[CopticChristian]

pablope;8421555:

No. I never implied it either. My point is that there is absolutely no difference in the way the Holy Spirit looks at/ works through … Catholic Christians and Not Catholic Christians.
pablope;8421555:

Why do you attempt to negate the value of those that laid their lives down and proved their Christianity … openly?
… and replace it with a scenario that fits your paradigm.
pablope;8421555:

The Apostles’ Creed
circa 300 A.D.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
Creator of Heaven and Earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
His only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into Heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
pablope;8421555:

Heres a good example:
quote pablope:
And how do you know that Catholics were not praying for the same thing? Only silently? And asked for the intercession of the Saints that finally defeated the cartels?

---

… so it wasnt anything to do with the people that actually confessed Jesus openly in the face of death … and laid down their lives?
pablope;8421555:

The author asked why he cant receive Catholic Communion … I showed clearly that Non Catholics are 100% as Christian in every way according to the definition of a Christian … as any Catholic … and that any rule denying access to Communion is therefore religious.

… angst isnt on the radar.

My daughter was baptized and could not go to communion until she was catechized. You having been baptized, I assume, can go to communion once catechized. You are equal among equals.

 

[KathleenGee]

Jon…

I am seeing so much of an entitlement mentality, along with absolute relativism dominating my neck of the woods…not referring to any particular denomination…rather the current public mindset…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

For the life of me I cannot understand these threads.

If you don’t have any desire, let alone belief in participation with Catholic beliefs, WHY on earth would you want to sit through a Mass, just to participate in communion you don’t believe in anyway??
I know I have no desire to sit though a protestant service, nor do I want to partake in their communion either!

All that aside, it is an expression of respect to refrain if you are not in communion with that belief. … but then again the culture today is far more concerned about “me” then they are worried about respect.

:edited to remove gifs

I think it’s subversion and desecration of the sacraments, myself. Done out of spite and/or bitterness. Defiance in spitting at God and saying, “There, I did it, now strike me down!” Or spitting at the Church, “See, you can’t stop me from taking the Eucharist, so there!” That’s the attitude of belligerence I pick up.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

… the people of Cali … and the missionaries in the Amazon … can lay down their lives for Christ … as they did and are doing … but, within their particular expression of Christianity, they are to refrain from your Communion table.

Yes, but they are free to take their own form of communion as their denomination performs that rite. I am not saying it is valid, but many denominations do have some form of The Lord’s Supper that they partake of periodically.

And why do you believe yourself to be the spokesman for these missionaries? Why would you think they would be interested in receiving the Eucharist in a Catholic church? Did they write that anywhere? Were they quoted as being sad that they could not take communion as a Catholic, when they were not Catholic? Did they burn for desire to convert but felt that for some reason they could not convert? Please point me to writings that state that they believed so.

Also, no one here has stated that they are any less Christian than anyone else, just that they weren’t Catholics. Their actions were heroic and holy, no matter what their denomination. God rest their souls.

 

[KathleenGee]

Exactly…conjecturing in which missionaries…if they are not Catholic, they will not introduce the Eucharist to them, if antying, invalidate it.

As the Jews had the sanctuaryy and the Ark of the Covenant among them, considering the penalty of death if any unauthorized person touched the Ark, the sanctuary now is restored through Jesus Christ, and as atonement for sin, we can now taste and be nourished by God now among us.

However to receive without faith and defiance is a sacrilege.

 

[cheese_puff]

I think it’s subversion and desecration of the sacraments, myself. Done out of spite and/or bitterness. Defiance in spitting at God and saying, “There, I did it, now strike me down!” Or spitting at the Church, “See, you can’t stop me from taking the Eucharist, so there!” That’s the attitude of belligerence I pick up.

Exactly! The concern is all about “me” and no respect for beliefs OR God.

 

[Marybeloved]

Hello, everyone,

Sorry if I repeat what’s been said- Haven’t read the thread.

If you’re in a regular protestant church (meaning, not the LDS, Jehovah’s witnesses, Unitarians etc)- Basically you don’t deny the catholic teachings on the Blessed Trinity and Divinity of Christ etc- These are basic in all Christianity and denied only by fringe groups like the above examples. This is important because otherwise, your baptism would not be regarded as valid by the catholic Church. However, most Protestants are “good” on this issue in the eyes of the church, and virtually all baptisms involve water and the invocation of the Blessed Trinity, In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, so valid.

If you’re ok on that point, my understanding is that it’s possible to partake of the blessed sacrament provided:
a) You must express desire for the sacraments (obviously).
b) You must also express the faith of the church with regard to that sacrament- You must believe that it is the actual body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ and not just symbolic.
c) You must go to confession beforehand, as a catholic does during first holy communion, or after committing a mortal sin. This is because we do not believe that a simple 'Jesus forgive me" of the heart guarantees cleansing of the soul for that sin if it’s mortal. Since protestants have no valid priesthood or confession, you must go to confession to a Catholic priest first, to avoid desecrating the sacrament/sacrilage.

Someone correct me if i’m wrong. But I believe that the Church allows individual members of protestant churches with valid faith (in a basic sense- Belief in Trinity, Jesus is God and man, was born of a virgin, crucified, died, resurrected, ascended will come again etc), and have been validly baptized with water and the name of the Blessed Trinity, can approach the church as individuals for the sacraments, if they satisfy the given requirements. I believe individual Orthodox can receive much easier because they have most requirements, short of being catholic, if they cannot access their own church for the same and the church is available to them.