If Jesus came back tonight and FLEW, would you still doubt?

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Jamie5

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I hate to admit it, but I feel like a doubting Thomas some times.
I have been thinking about this a LOT lately, and it’s quite scary.

Giving the technology we have today, and with the advent of photorealistic CGI and even holograms, if a person appeared today knocked on your door and said “Hello, I’m Jesus!” and then proceeded to fly around the room/outside area, would you kneel and believe?

To be honest, I think I would doubt and look for some kind of jetpack or antigravity device or wires. So this leads to the second question: What miracle would need to happen for you to truly believe?

For myself, if this person was able to truly read my thoughts and create images and real things out of thin air then I would believe, things that only he could know about me.

Thoughts?
 
I would think I’m mentally ill.

The miracle would be someone telling me things only I know about myself and also an indescribable feeling of peace in my heart. A miracle wouldn’t hurt as well
 
There was a great Star Trek about this actually now that I think about it. Star Trek the next generation! A being claimed to be a GOD/Devil and proceeded to even create earthquakes and physically transform themselves. BUT it turned out to be a con woman who was using a ship outside orbit in essentially a magic act.
 
No. If I have irrefutable evidence before my very eyes, I’d stop doubting.
 
Rhubarb said:
No. If I have irrefutable evidence before my very eyes, I’d stop doubting.
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What would make the evidence irrefutable?
To be honest, I was thinking about when I saw David Copperfield live about 18 years ago and he FLEW around the stage! It was amazing.

So in essence, a truly great magician could Impersonate Jesus quite easily, especially pre internet.
 
No because a). that sounds like a silly scenario haha. And b). I don’t think Jesus would reveal Himself to me unless I were worthy of such a grace.
 
Right. And it would have to be more than swooping around in a stage.
 
I mean what better way to prove you’re Jesus than by flying around 🙂
 
GAH I HATE THAT SHOW ! , you know how he pulls off the hard stunts like walking on water and flying, he uses the cameras and they pay people to be surprised. i saw the behind the scenes on that episode was interesting. i am more interested in shows that debunk crappy magicians than the crappy magician shows.
 
Jamie, I’d be figuring out the technology behind the phenomenon.
I believe in Him regardless.

A priest I knew said, when you doubt, use that as a springboard to deeper faith.
It’s human to sometimes doubt.

God bless you always
 
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clarkgamble said:
Consider this. Any kid today with several jars of water and a few packs of Grape Koolaid could fool the wedding wine drinkers 2000 years ago into believing water was turned into wine.**
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Wow, you are incredibly dense and have far too simplistic a view of older cultures. These people were not stupid, and given that wine was a staple of pretty much every meal, they would have been more than capable of distinguish between it and grape-flavored powder. This is like protestants who claim Christ converted it to grape juice, seriously, no one who has ever had wine would confuse it with grapejuice…

As for the rest of your argument about aliens; given that there has been no evidence thus far of other intelligent civilizations, let along ones capable of interstellar, or even interplanetary, travel, the fact that you think this can somehow be used to dismiss Christ’s miracles is laughable. Your basing your position on pure conjecture. Not exactly a solid footing for an entire worldview.
 
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Actually, if you truly think about it, back then, a great magician could have fooled everyone into thinking they were a miracle worker, this is common sense, not being dense at all. Heck a lot of people TODAY think David Blaine is the devil 😉
 
Oh yes, they could and did. Many of the Pagan “wonders” that have been recorded could reasonably be explained through illusionary techniques. However, the nature of Christ’s miracles precludes this in almost every instance. Even the walking on water, which Blaine supposedly accomplished, does not replicate the actual conditions presented in the Biblical account. No storm, no waves to speak of, and he didn’t bring anyone out with him to walk.

The specific example Clark gave, grape koolaide, shows an insulting level of ignorance about the intelligence of these ancient societies. Clark seems to be of the mind that simply because a society existed earlier in time than ours, that it was somehow less intelligent as a whole.
 
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Jamie5 said:
What miracle would need to happen for you to truly believe?
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He would need to make my heart feel the way it does when I am at Adoration. No person of this world can have this effect on me, not even my best friend, my wife. Jesus is not of this world though, and only He can set our hearts ablaze in this way.

This makes me think of Jesus appearing on the road to Emmaus:
Luke 24:13-32
13 That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem,
14 and talking with each other about all these things that had happened.
15 While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them.
16 But their eyes were kept from recognizing him.
17 And he said to them, “What is this conversation which you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad.
18 Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”
19 And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,
20 and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him.
21 But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since this happened.
22 Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning
23 and did not find his body; and they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive.
24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb, and found it just as the women had said; but him they did not see.”
25 And he said to them, “O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
27 And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He appeared to be going further,
29 but they constrained him, saying, “Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent.” So he went in to stay with them.
30 When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them.
31 And their eyes were opened and they recognized him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32 They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the scriptures?”
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If Jesus returned, I think He would reveal Himself to us at exactly the right time and in an undeniable way, just as he did on the road to Emmaus.
 
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Please, enlighten me on these accounts.

And while you’re at it, give me a historical time frame, and specific populations that could have been used to verify at the time.

the problem with the majority of claims from Hindu and other eastern belief structures is that they are all mythic, i.e., they do not take place in a defined time frame, merely “long long ago.” They are not fixed in history, but rather are fluid legends that changed with time to suit the needs of a particular period.

The Bible is not like this. Apart from the very beginning of Genesis, (written in the form of histroic allegory), the Bible takes place in a very definite historical time frame. While it may seem ancient to us, at the time of writing these people were very much alive, and the accounts could easily be verified. That is specifically why the Gospel writers gave us specific names and places, they are written in the format of historical documentation, to be as easily verified as possible.

It’s true that anyone who could verify the accounts is long since dead to us, but as I pointed out in my post above, these were not stupid people. They did not simply believe anything some random Dick or Jane told them was true. The Christian Gospel presents extreme, outlandish claims that, had they been false, would have been incredibly easy to disprove, not least of which was the literal Resurrection of Christianity’s central figure. This is, again , a specific event set in a very well defined historical context, not some mythic event that happened in the long forgotten past like the Hindu religious texts.
 
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