If Jesus paid for our sins, then why is there a Purgatory?

[Fidelis]

lydiabeeuk:

That’s a good point, but it’s also worth considering that because Jesus is God, and God is omnipresent, then perhaps ‘today’ could be taken literally.

That is surely worth considering, since God is not constrained by our conception of time. However, one could also point out that the purgatory of the Good Thief (and whatever purgatory the rest of us may have) may also occur outside our usual concept of time. The Church has always believed and taught the existence of a purgatory, but it has never defined how long it lasts.

 

[godsent]

I wonder if purgatory will be a scary place,like if it has real fires,will they burn us or hurt us?

 

[Exporter]

hermit:

Fr Guido Sarducci is the authority on “paying for your sins.”

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This not only was unnecesary, it was a slap in the face of all fervent Roman Catholics. hermit, I do not belive that you know that what you posted was derogatory. It does show that you aren’t a very knowledgable Catholic. In Fact your post takes a valid question and turns it into a joke. Shame on your mother for teaching you that.

 

[Exporter]

lydiabeeuk:

I don’t understand - surely sin by definition is inclination away from God? Are you saying that purgatory does not take away our sins, but stops us from sinning any more in the future?

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Absolutely! Purgatory DOES NOT take away sins at all. Purgatory takes away the propensity to sin, our appitite for sin is removed.“Nothing unclesn will enter Heaven”. The word “Purgatory” is not mentioned in the bible but the word “Trinity” is not mentioned in the bible either yet protestants and catholics alike believe in it. It is not important that the word “Purgatory” be mentioned in the bible.

Matt 5:25-26 says, " Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into PRISON.5:26. Amen I say to thee, THOU SHALT NO GO OUT FROM THENCE TILL THOU REPAY THE LAST FARTHING." Notice: This is part of the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus is telling the disciples first about the quality of souls of the just (the Beatitudes) and then goes on to describe the souls of the lost (v21-22)but then he speaks about the souls in “Prison”. In context, He cannot be speaking about a physical prison where inmates stay, rather, it is Purgatory. Here’s why: The Greek word here for “Prison” is “Phulake” or “Phulaken” (Strong’s #5438).Notice too that the next verse says, “…THOU SHALT NO GO OUT FROM THENCE TILL THOU REPAY THE LAST FARTHING.” So here you see the souls do eventually get out. Ok, now, go to 1 Pet 3:18-19 which says, “Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh,
but enlivened in the spirit,In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in PRISON:” This “Prison” is the same as the one in Matt 5 because the same Greek word “Phulaken” is used. Notice: Verse 18 speaks about Christ dead and then what? He goes and speaks to the souls in “Prison”! Catholic teaching doesn’t include where Purgatory exists only that it does exist. Most verses tend to show it in the upper parts of Hell. Some think it is like an ante-chamber of heaven. It’s OK either way. St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Robert Bellarmine are two who believed it is in hell. This isn’t strange because we believe the Limbo of the Fathers (The Bosom of Abraham) was in hell (see Luke 16:22). When Jesus descended into hell, he took those souls (like Abraham,Moses, etc)out of the Bosom of Abraham and into heaven because this was when Christ opened the gates of heaven.

1 Cor 3:11-15 says, " For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid: which is Christ Jesus. 3:12. Now, if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: 3:13. Every man’s work shall be manifest FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD shall declare it, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. 3:14. If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 315. If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHAL BE SAVED, YET SO AS BY FIRE." Notice: It’s not just the works (gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble) that go through the fire but it says “HE” shall be saved by fire. Why? Because your works are attached to you so when they go through the fire so do you.

Again, who of you , besides the Protestants, thinks that he is totally clean and free of sin and the propensity to sin as they die? Not me.

 

[johnq]

godsent:

I wonder if purgatory will be a scary place,like if it has real fires,will they burn us or hurt us?

Hi godsent, :tiphat:

The pains of purgatory on beyond our ability to comprehend. That is why it is so important to pray for them as they can no longer pray for themselves, although we can ask for their intercession. The Mass is their greatest relief. Other meritorious prayers include pleading the Precious Blood, indulgences, fasting, Rosary, Chaplet of Divine Mercy, corporal and spiritual works of mercy and any other prayers offered for their relief. There is a reason why the Church calls them the Church Suffering. Some people call them the poor souls, which is a good name if we realize they must depend on prayers. Prayers for the Holy Souls is one of the greatest acts of mercy we can do and will be highly rewarded for in heaven.

God

 

[lydiabeeuk]

Hi exporter, sorry I still don’t understand - if our sins are not removed in purgatory what happens to them if we die imperfect? Our appetite for sin is removed, but what happens to the guilt of the sins that we have already committed, if nothing impure can enter heaven?

From a catholic perspective, I agree with you that it is not necessary for the word purgatory be mentioned in Scripture. The concept of the trinity, however, is everywhere in the bible, though the word not mentioned specifically. I’m not sure that the passages you use to prove purgatory’s existence are entirely convincing, though maybe I’m just a bit stupid!

You mentioned that the prison spoken about in Matt 5 must not be meant literally because the Greek word is identical to the word used in 1 peter 3. So the prison Jesus is talking about here is the same prison Peter is talking about. You could well be right. How does that fit in with the Church’s teaching on purgatory. Why would Christ have gone down to the people there and preached to them?, and what is the relevance of the rest of the verse – “the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built”. Peter seems to say that these spirits in prison were specifically those who disobeyed at the time of Noah?

If you say that 1cor 3:11-15 describes purgatory, then you must believe that **every **person who will inherit eternal life goes there, that nobody bypasses it, not even saints – this is because the verse implies that every man goes through this fire – if his work is good – then he get a reward, if not – then he suffers loss. I thought that the church taught that some people can bypass purgatory?

 

[Wildgraywolf]

PMV:

Jesus suffered, was crucified and died to pay for our sins. If Jesus already took the punishment for our sins, then why do we have to pay for them in Purgatory?

Purgatory isn’t a final destination, but rather, it’s the laundramat for the soul. Remeber Rev. 21:27, nothing unclean will enter heaven.

Let’s say you’re having a dinner party and you break out your finest table cloth, but you notice that it’s wrinkled and stained. Now, you paid a lot for that table cloth and it’s not so badly damaged that it can’t be made presentable. So you wash and iron it and POOF - good as new. This is the idea of Purgatory.

Here’s some questions for you: When are we clean enough to enter heaven or at what point to we become sinless: right now, at the moment of death?