If Judas didn't betray Jesus, would we still be dead in sin?

[Mannyfit75]

I was pondering this. If Judas had not betray Jesus, would we still be dead in sin? Because if he didn’t betray Jesus, Jesus wouldn’t be condemn to death on the cross. Do you think another would have been able to betray Jesus, or will the Pharisees, Sadducees find a way to kill Jesus if Judas did not betray Jesus?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I was pondering this. If Judas had not betray Jesus, would we still be dead in sin? Because if he didn’t betray Jesus, Jesus wouldn’t be condemn to death on the cross. Do you think another would have been able to betray Jesus, or will the Pharisees, Sadducees find a way to kill Jesus if Judas did not betray Jesus?

God’s will would have been done one way or the other. His plan isn’t contingent on one person fulfilling prophecy. Remember, with God all things are possible.

Peace…

MW

 

[grandfather]

God’s will would have been done one way or the other. His plan isn’t contingent on one person fulfilling prophecy. Remember, with God all things are possible.

Peace…

MW

Not quite! Had Mary not consented to conceive of the Holy Ghost there would be no Incarnation, no hope of salvation, no revelation of a triune God.

 

[Other_Eric]

The thing is that the crucifixion would have likely happened anyway. The chief priests and Pharisees were zealously searching for any opportunity to put Christ to death. Judas just happened to be the first opportunity that presented itself but it does not follow that other occasions would not have arisen in the absence of Judas’ betrayal.

 

[BlaineTog]

God would have found a way. He certainly wouldn’t have thrown up his hands in frustration saying, “Damn it, Judas, why couldn’t you have just betrayed my son to death already?! Forget this, I’m going to watch ESPN.”

 

[kepha1]

Not quite! Had Mary not consented to conceive of the Holy Ghost there would be no Incarnation, no hope of salvation, no revelation of a triune God.

AMEN! Mary’s participation was required. Judas’s participation was incidental.

HE IS RISEN! HAPPY EASTER!!

 

[Holdfast]

I think if the blessed mother decided to not give birth, God would have found another. But she knew in her heart that it was what needed to be done for the rest of us, and thank God she decided to obey God’s wishes. Thank you Mary, we all love ya

 

[jackjones]

Not quite! Had Mary not consented to conceive of the Holy Ghost there would be no Incarnation, no hope of salvation, no revelation of a triune God.

There is always evidence of a Triune God in the OT Genesis 1:26 1:2 The Spirit of God. Genesis 3:8 God was walking in the Garden (Christ) Joshua 5:14-15 Daniel 3:25 (Christ) … Had Mary not consented, this is hypothetical speaking, and has no place in actually happenings… This is like saying the holy Spirit would have to go home wagging his tail behind himself,if he had a tail… Gods revelation IS the Great I AM in human form, the man Christ Jesus. Who alone salvation is found in Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved… No other Name

 

[Evan]

Not quite! Had Mary not consented to conceive of the Holy Ghost there would be no Incarnation, no hope of salvation, no revelation of a triune God.

Not true, he would have found some other woman to be the mother of the Son of God. For the mother of Jesus did not have to be sinless, it is appropriate but nothing is impossible to God.

 

[scaron]

Not true, he would have found some other woman to be the mother of the Son of God. For the mother of Jesus did not have to be sinless, it is appropriate but nothing is impossible to God.

I believe grandfather is correct.

The Blessed Mother’s fiat was a requirement of salvation history. In the Melkite rite, they say, “All creation held its breath, wondering what her answer would be.”

It is however an ultimately meaningless hypothetical question. She had been prepared since the dawn of creation for her role, and all of human history arranged for her place. A people had been created, and set apart from the the pagans, and given Laws that kept them separate. A promise had been made, that the Davidic Line would produce the Messiah. A child had been conceived without sin fifteen years before. The child was educated in a Temple to understand the Davidic Promise. A Herald had been conceived by a miracle, just six months before, “to go before the Lord to prepare His way”.
All of creation had been ordered for this moment, from the instant Adam and Eve had fallen.

She could have said “No”, in the sense that her human mouth could have had said the word. But all that she was, and had been prepared to be, shouted “Fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum”.

 

[jackjones]

I believe grandfather is correct.

The Blessed Mother’s fiat was a requirement of salvation history. In the Melkite rite, they say, “All creation held its breath, wondering what her answer would be.”

It is however an ultimately meaningless hypothetical question. She had been prepared since the dawn of creation for her role, and all of human history arranged for her place. A people had been created, and set apart from the the pagans, and given Laws that kept them separate. A promise had been made, that the Davidic Line would produce the Messiah. A child had been conceived without sin fifteen years before. The child was educated in a Temple to understand the Davidic Promise. A Herald had been conceived by a miracle, just six months before, “to go before the Lord to prepare His way”.
All of creation had been ordered for this moment, from the instant Adam and Eve had fallen.

She could have said “No”, in the sense that her human mouth could have had said the word.
((How foolish to think such a thing… God asking someone to do his will, that there may be the possibility that they turn God down, this has to take the cookie… God in all his wisdom and foreknowledge…

But all that she was, and had been prepared to be, shouted “Fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum”.

 

[jackjones]

I believe grandfather is correct.

The Blessed Mother’s fiat was a requirement of salvation history. In the Melkite rite, they say, “All creation held its breath, wondering what her answer would be.”

seriouslydoubt all creationi guess your meaning mankind, for no other part of creation would of been holding its breath waiting for the answer. neither did any other person know by divine revelation that mary had concived by the power of the holy spirit, joseph was later to receive by way of a dream of just how mary becamne pregnant… But all this take about what if she had said NO is just funny, and complete jargon… She surrenderd to the will of God free willing… And later when she had given birth made a offering according to the law Lev 12:6 Luke 2:22-24 a sin offering and an ofering for her purification … According to Gods Will and law… Its obvious she needed also a saviour, Luke 1:47)))

It is however an ultimately meaningless hypothetical question. She had been prepared since the dawn of creation for her role, and all of human history arranged for her place. A people had been created, and set apart from the the pagans, and given Laws that kept them separate. A promise had been made, that the Davidic Line would produce the Messiah. A child had been conceived without sin fifteen years before. The child was educated in a Temple to understand the Davidic Promise. A Herald had been conceived by a miracle, just six months before, “to go before the Lord to prepare His way”.
All of creation had been ordered for this moment, from the instant Adam and Eve had fallen.

She could have said “No”,
((She could have said let me think about that one, old boy…))

in the sense that her human mouth could have had said the word. But all that she was, and had been prepared to be, shouted “Fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum”.