If life begins at conception

[Vico]

Not really sure what you’re trying to say, but Limbo is an error. The Catholic Church Teaches dogmatically that there are only two eternal destinies. Heaven and Hell. No limbo.

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 – or immediate and everlasting damnation.596

This will explain, from the posted document:

It is clear that the traditional teaching on this topic has concentrated on the theory of limbo, understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin. This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium, even if that same Magisterium did at times mention the theory in its ordinary teaching up until the Second Vatican Council. It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Just to clarify, Limbo was understood to be part of Hell. The name in fact implies this, as limbus means edge or border. It was merely understood to be the portion of Hell with no active punishment, merely the passive absence of God.

Peace and God bless.

 

[De_Maria]

There’s no such thing as the passive absence of God. It is Church Teaching that we are made for Him and can’t be happy unless we are united to Him. The absence of God is the main punishment of hell.

Peace and God’s blessing to you, as well.

 

[De_Maria]

It is no longer a theological hypothesis except for those who want to force us to accept a third eternal state which was not revealed by God.

 

[Vico]

It is no longer a theological hypothesis except for those who want to force us to accept a third eternal state which was not revealed by God.

There is no third eternal state required for Limbo. The teaching of the Church is that those without merit do not receive the Beatific Vision and that is how heavenly state is defined. As the commission wrote about the theory is that the unbaptized infants could be in a state of natural peace, even without the Beatific Vision, yet this is still hell precisely because there is no Beatific Vision. The more modern question is, could the unbaptized infants receive sanctifying grace like occurs in baptism of blood?

 

[RoseofMary1]

Parents have authority over their children. There is a Catholic prayer that parents can pray for their unborn children when they are being miscarried. Parents can ask the Almighty Father to take their children’s souls. We pray a modified version at the dumpsters outside Planned Parenthood for all the unborn babies in danger of abortion. Abortion is the highest ritual of satan worshippers, and they consecrate the babies to satan, so we pray for the babies that God would take them into His arms.

 

[Rau]

A refutation of this may be that Onan was also lying to Tamar. Not simply not fulfilling his duty which does have a punishment prescribed. Even then that may not have been at the time. I do not think this works as an argument against contraception.

I believe it does though persons comfortable with contraception do regularly claim otherwise. Onan was punished not for failing to provide a child, but “for what he did”.

 

[Rau]

Just to clarify, Limbo was understood to be part of Hell. The name in fact implies this, as limbus means edge or border. It was merely understood to be the portion of Hell with no active punishment, merely the passive absence of God.

It seems to me that all one needs to recognise is that it is inconceivable that God would wreak pain and suffering on the most innocent of innocents.

 

[Ghosty1981]

There’s no such thing as the passive absence of God. It is Church Teaching that we are made for Him and can’t be happy unless we are united to Him. The absence of God is the main punishment of hell.

It is passive because there is no active punishment, merely the absence of God. Various theologians argued for different results from this privation. Some, such as St. Augustine, said that there was minimal suffering for such infants, while others such as St. Thomas Aquinas argued that such infants would experience perfect natural happiness to the degree that they would be able without Grace, as any active suffering was unjustified.

In all cases Limbo was understood to be a “part” of Hell, as its very name attests.

God bless!

 

[De_Maria]

There is no third eternal state required for Limbo. The teaching of the Church is that those without merit do not receive the Beatific Vision …

No, it isn’t. That is the theological hypothesis spoken of earlier. The Beatific Vision is the state or condition of being able to see God as He is. Those granted this vision, are in heaven. Those not granted this vision, are in hell. A condition of being in heaven without the Beatific Vision would be a third eternal state which is not revealed by God.

 

[De_Maria]

It is passive because there is no active punishment, merely the absence of God…

There is no such thing as “merely” the absence of God. We are made for God and the absence of God is the greatest punishment that any soul can be given.

St. Augustine himself recognizes this. It is he who said, “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.””

Psalm 42:2 As the deer longs for streams of water,
so my soul longs for you, O God.
3 My soul thirsts for God, the living God.
When can I enter and see the face of God?

This is the condition in which you would have the infants remain for eternity. Longing for God and not being able to receive Him. This is an active punishment.

God bless!

And you, as well

 

[Vico]

Vico:

There is no third eternal state required for Limbo. The teaching of the Church is that those without merit do not receive the Beatific Vision …

No, it isn’t. That is the theological hypothesis spoken of earlier. The Beatific Vision is the state or condition of being able to see God as He is. Those granted this vision, are in heaven. Those not granted this vision, are in hell. A condition of being in heaven without the Beatific Vision would be a third eternal state which is not revealed by God.

The quoted document from before:

It is clear that the traditional teaching on this topic has concentrated on the theory of limbo, understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin. …
18 God is just. If he condemns unbaptised children to hell, it is because they are sinners. Although these infants are punished in hell, they will suffer only the “mildest condemnation” (“mitissima poena”),[33] “the lightest punishment of all”,[34] for there are diverse punishments in proportion to the guilt of the sinner.[35]These infants were unable to help themselves, but there is no injustice in their condemnation because all belong to “the same mass”, the mass destined for perdition. God does no injustice to those who are not elected, for all deserve hell.

 

[Benadam]

Longing for God and not being able to receive Him. This is an active punishment.

I remember reading something to this effect:
The souls in limbo would see souls in heaven without feeling a lacking. They would consider the heavenly state as not pertaining to themselves. As we don’t feel a lacking seeing a bird fly. We aren’t lacking because we don’t have wings. Wings don’t pertain to being human. So, the souls in limb aren’t suffering the feeling of loss like souls that had the opportunity to receive God and refused. According to the theory.

 

[Lea101]

I didn’t read everything but I don’t see why it counts as a good argument.

We don’t usually baptize right after birth anyway but it’s not like we think we must baptize the moment a life is a life?

 

[De_Maria]

Longing for God and not being able to receive Him. This is an active punishment.

That theory contradicts revelation.

Luke 1:44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.

St. John, in St. Elizabeth’s womb, leaped for joy at the proximity of Jesus Christ in Our Lady’s womb.

 

[Benadam]

Not that I necessarily believe in Limbo, but according to the theory, there is no proximity to the Lord.

 

[De_Maria]

Not that I necessarily believe in Limbo, but according to the theory, there is no proximity to the Lord.

In eternity, because there is no time and space in eternity. So, the whole idea of Beatific Vision is metaphorical. In eternity, you are either in God’s love or you’re not. You are either in heaven or hell.

Do you believe that God loves unbaptized infants? yes or no.

I believe He does.

 

[Benadam]

I sure do. I believe God will have a nifty way of bringing them back to Himself.

As to Limbo, they would be removed from God’s love in that case, but would be able to observe souls that aren’t, as if in the distance.

I would say they faintly observe myself rather than using a word to describe space between objects.

 

[Vico]

Not that I necessarily believe in Limbo, but according to the theory, there is no proximity to the Lord.

You mean by grace? By grace, God may also be present in some souls. God is substantially in all things by his essence as the immediate origin of their existence, including the created spiritual essences, e.g., angels, demons, and human souls.

 

[Benadam]

Is it a grace? I would think so if the damned willed to exist rather than not exist.