If Lutherans and Catholics rejoin ranks ....

  • Thread starter Thread starter brb3
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Here I think the RCC has moved away from the medieval doctrines regarding justification, or is at least headed in the right direction.

I almost wonder if Martin Luther could have said This:
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Click to expand...
In our continuing catechesis on Saint Paul, we now consider his teaching on our justification. Paul’s experience of the Risen Lord on the road to Damascus led him to see that it is only by faith in Christ, and not by any merit of our own, that we are made righteous before God. Our justification in Christ is thus God’s gracious gift, revealed in the mystery of the Cross. Christ died in order to become our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption (cf. 1 Cor 1:30), and we in turn, justified by faith, have become in him the very righteousness of God (cf. 2 Cor 5:21). In the light of the Cross and its gifts of reconciliation and new life in the Spirit, Paul rejected a righteousness based on the Law and its works. For the Apostle, the Mosaic Law, as an irrevocable gift of God to Israel, is not abrogated but relativized, since it is only by faith in God’s promises to Abraham, now fulfilled in Christ, that we receive the grace of justification and new life. The Law finds its end in Christ (cf. Rom 10:4) and its fulfilment in the new commandment of love. With Paul, then, let us make the Cross of Christ our only boast (cf. Gal 6:14), and give thanks for the grace which has made us members of Christ’s Body, which is the Church.
Click to expand...
But that was actually Pope Benedict XVI.

EWTN obviously didn’t get the memo, though.
 
brb3 said:
What would the rest of Protestant world think/do ?
Click to expand...
They would probably keep on doing what they have always been doing, and just claim the Lutherans went apostate.

Really in some circles Lutherans and Anglicans are seen as “Catholic lite” anyways. For those circles it would probably just confirm their view.
 
I don’t know if today’s protestant would do much. They’re very much removed from the original faith. 🤷

MJ
 
Indifferently said:
Here I think the RCC has moved away from the medieval doctrines regarding justification, or is at least headed in the right direction.

I almost wonder if Martin Luther could have said This:

But that was actually Pope Benedict XVI.

EWTN obviously didn’t get the memo, though.
Click to expand...
And Benedict also had some remarkable comments on Purgatory … which the Lutherans now find acceptable, — not the Middle Ages ideas Martin Luther knew them for.
 
brb3 said:
And Benedict also had some remarkable comments on Purgatory … which the Lutherans now find acceptable, — not the Middle Ages ideas Martin Luther knew them for.
Click to expand...
I think remarkable things can happen. Evangelicals and Roman Catholics now work together for the right to life. Anything is possible with God.
 
Through god all things are possible
but this wont happen in our lifetimes thats for sure
wow i cant believe this was asked
 
It just comes down to if Catholics can accept the Lutheran position on communion. Lutherans agree with Catholics in a real oral eating and drinking of the body and blood of Christ except that Lutherans say it is by sacramental union.

Seriously I think it’s disgusting to bicker about details 95% of members of each do not truly understand and those members accept whatever their denomination promotes.

Many Christians, Catholics, Lutherans and other denominations will be saved because they truly believe in their hearts and by their deeds. They will no be saved because their denomination was “correct” in some doctrine details. No one is going to hell for denying real presence.
 
Luth123 said:
It just comes down to if Catholics can accept the Lutheran position on communion. Lutherans agree with Catholics in a real oral eating and drinking of the body and blood of Christ except that Lutherans say it is by sacramental union.

Seriously I think it’s disgusting to bicker about details 95% of members of each do not truly understand and those members accept whatever their denomination promotes.

Many Christians, Catholics, Lutherans and other denominations will be saved because they truly believe in their hearts and by their deeds. They will no be saved because their denomination was “correct” in some doctrine details. No one is going to hell for denying real presence.
Click to expand...
On the Eucharist, this is already starting to happen:
. The ecumenical discussion has shown that these two positions must no longer be regarded as opposed in a way that leads to separation. The Lutheran tradition agrees with the Catholic tradition that the consecrated elements do not simply remain bread and wine but by the power of the creative Word are bestowed as the body and blood of Christ. In this sense it also could occasionally speak, as does the Greek tradition of a “change”.36 The concept of transsubstantiation for its part is intended as a confession and preservation of the mystery character of the Eucharistic presence; it is not intended as an explanation of how this change occurs37 (see the appendices on “Real Presence” and “Christ’s Presence in the Eucharist”).
Click to expand...
prounione.urbe.it/dia-int/l-rc/doc/e_l-rc_eucharist.html
 
I think it’s more likely to happen with Evangelical Protestants than with Lutherans.

I work with many Lutherans in various musical projects in our area. I consider them “salt of the earth” Christians. A good and holy Lutheran is a delight, and there are plenty of them around.

But it seems that many of the Lutheran denominations (synods? Sorry, JonNC)–and by that, I mean the LEADERSHIP, which means those who control the “official” policies of their denomination–endorse things that are directly opposed to Catholic dogma; e.g., homosexual marriage, open practice of homosexuality, and abortion.

Several of the Lutheran churches in our area proudly fly “rainbow” flags and proudly announce that gay couples and singles are “welcome to fully participate” in their church life.

Also, several of the Lutheran pastors and teachers in our area proudly speak up for pro-abortion policies, support the abortion clinic (which has been closed down in our city for several years now, praise God), and endorse “a woman’s right to choose” to abort her unborn child.

Also, many Lutheran pastors and laypeople take public stands that are not in direct opposition to Catholic dogma, but that are considered “liberal” viewpoints among Catholics: e.g., re-distribution of wealth/socialism, global warming and priority of environmental issues over human rights, the most stringent of gun control policies, feminism, etc. These stands would not prevent the re-unification of Catholics and Lutherans, but they would make many Lutherans uncomfortable in Catholic parishes. In fact, quite a few Catholics have left our parishes to join LUTHERAN churches because they feel more comfortable politically.

Finally, most of the Lutheran pastors that I know are women, and from what I understand, there is a decided shortage of males who are enrolled in Lutheran seminaries. Perhaps this would change if the Lutherans were re-united with the Catholics, and perhaps more men would heed the call and become priests.

I am also wondering how the liturgy would change if Lutheranism was re-united with Catholicism. I personally LOVE the way Lutherans do their music during their liturgy, and the way they SING, sing, sing! If…oh, it would be lovely!..IF the Catholic Church alllowed/created a “Lutheran rite”, as they have done with the Anglican rite (I hope I’m using the correct term, “rite,”) I would be extremely interested in joining it, IF the music in the “Lutheran rite” were like the Lutheran liturgical music that I know and love. There is a lot more freedom to use music of all styles and levels in the Lutheran liturgy, and it doesn’t feel as hobbled as Catholic Mass liturgical music (I’m speaking of the OF Mass, not the EF, but the EF Mass is even more limited).
 
Cat said:
I think it’s more likely to happen with Evangelical Protestants than with Lutherans.
.
Click to expand...
That will never happen. Evangelical denominations will never unite with the Catholic Church. The differences are simply too vast.
 
Cat said:
I work with many Lutherans in various musical projects in our area. I consider them “salt of the earth” Christians. A good and holy Lutheran is a delight, and there are plenty of them around.
Click to expand...
This is why I’m happy about the possibility of a Catholic Lutheran Ordinate. Frankly, my Synod should be poaching as many ELCA members as possible. In my opinion, the rot in the ELCA is too entrenched to remove, but I hope I’m wrong. I pray that I’m wrong.
 
Cat said:
I think it’s more likely to happen with Evangelical Protestants than with Lutherans.

I work with many Lutherans in various musical projects in our area. I consider them “salt of the earth” Christians. A good and holy Lutheran is a delight, and there are plenty of them around.

But it seems that many of the Lutheran denominations (synods? Sorry, JonNC)–and by that, I mean the LEADERSHIP, which means those who control the “official” policies of their denomination–endorse things that are directly opposed to Catholic dogma; e.g., homosexual marriage, open practice of homosexuality, and abortion.

Several of the Lutheran churches in our area proudly fly “rainbow” flags and proudly announce that gay couples and singles are “welcome to fully participate” in their church life.

Also, several of the Lutheran pastors and teachers in our area proudly speak up for pro-abortion policies, support the abortion clinic (which has been closed down in our city for several years now, praise God), and endorse “a woman’s right to choose” to abort her unborn child.

Also, many Lutheran pastors and laypeople take public stands that are not in direct opposition to Catholic dogma, but that are considered “liberal” viewpoints among Catholics: e.g., re-distribution of wealth/socialism, global warming and priority of environmental issues over human rights, the most stringent of gun control policies, feminism, etc. These stands would not prevent the re-unification of Catholics and Lutherans, but they would make many Lutherans uncomfortable in Catholic parishes. In fact, quite a few Catholics have left our parishes to join LUTHERAN churches because they feel more comfortable politically.

Finally, most of the Lutheran pastors that I know are women, and from what I understand, there is a decided shortage of males who are enrolled in Lutheran seminaries. Perhaps this would change if the Lutherans were re-united with the Catholics, and perhaps more men would heed the call and become priests.

I am also wondering how the liturgy would change if Lutheranism was re-united with Catholicism. I personally LOVE the way Lutherans do their music during their liturgy, and the way they SING, sing, sing! If…oh, it would be lovely!..IF the Catholic Church alllowed/created a “Lutheran rite”, as they have done with the Anglican rite (I hope I’m using the correct term, “rite,”) I would be extremely interested in joining it, IF the music in the “Lutheran rite” were like the Lutheran liturgical music that I know and love. There is a lot more freedom to use music of all styles and levels in the Lutheran liturgy, and it doesn’t feel as hobbled as Catholic Mass liturgical music (I’m speaking of the OF Mass, not the EF, but the EF Mass is even more limited).
Click to expand...
The first non-fundamentalist church I ever attended was an ALC Lutheran church and I instantly fell in love with the singing. Lutherans actually have the liturgy in the Hymnal.

Jon’s church the LCMS is not liberal at all, they have no women clergy and definately no homosexual pastors and abortion is forbidden. All Lutherans are not the same

I think personally it is more important for churches agree on theology than far right wing politics.

LCMS theology is very very near to Catholic theology, while fundamental evangelical theology could not be more different.
 
brandonjennings said:
Through god all things are possible
but this wont happen in our lifetimes thats for sure
wow i cant believe this was asked
Click to expand...
Quite a few threads have been started for the purpose of asking completely speculative questions. I don’t think any one of them is really surprising, but collectively they can be a bit of a nuisance.
 
Elostirion said:
I thought 'twas by grace we were saved.
Click to expand...
Grace is offered from God to all humans, but one must believe in the Savior for God’s grace to have any meaning. And if one truly believes they will have good works, but good works themselves do not provide salvation nor can they be measured for salvation.
 
andrewstx said:
The first non-fundamentalist church I ever attended was an ALC Lutheran church and I instantly fell in love with the singing. Lutherans actually have the liturgy in the Hymnal.

Jon’s church the LCMS is not liberal at all, they have no women clergy and definately no homosexual pastors and abortion is forbidden. All Lutherans are not the same

I think personally it is more important for churches agree on theology than far right wing politics.

LCMS theology is very very near to Catholic theology, while fundamental evangelical theology could not be more different.
Click to expand...
And that is why I said, “Many Lutheran denominations,” rather than “ALL Lutherans.” 🙂

And that is why I began my post by stating that good and holy Lutherans are “Salt of the Earth” Christians. 🙂

Yes, I know that there are still decent Lutheran synods.

I also know that within the ELCA, which is very liberal, there are still very conservative Lutherans who are still in the ELCA because of family ties or other strong reasons.

I think it’s tragic that the ELCA has twisted the thinking of so many good and Biblically-literate Lutheran Christians and convinced them that abortion is acceptable and that homosexual marriage is a good thing. I know elderly women who should KNOW BETTER, who spout out the pro-choice and pro-gay sentiments and try to make it sound like God approves. Those ELCA pastors, male, female, or whatever, will have a lot to answer for to Jesus someday. I pity them.
 
The RCC US Bishops web site seems a lot intellect wing (pro immigration, anti death penalty) than the LCMS.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top