If Macro Evolution is true, Should we let the Sin begin?

[Gia_B]

Evolution explains how we don’t need God , that its a self sustaining principle. we came about through a evolutionary process in which morality would be a simple hinderance. So adultry should be viewed as a good thing perhaps. Adultry can better ensure the survival of our seed. Marriage doesnt make much sense either, or celibacy.why should we ignore the millions and millions of years of evolutionary buildup in our organism should we not embrace it? this is what we are. Our Ancestors are Monkeys. We are Monkeys then in some sense .

please discuss

You do realize that there is more to natural selection than just having lots and lots of children, right? The children have to be raised in a way that will help them survive. Marriage provides a stable environment so that the children can grow up to be functional adults. If a woman has five children by five different men, she’d be lucky if she would be able to get only two of those guys to come over and help occasionally. The woman and her children would be more likely to have a low income and the children will likely have issues stemming from not having a father. That’s definitely not a good thing.

 

[dianaiad]

Diane …how does it feel to know that mankind use to look like Ida? please respond directly…

You people are getting dull…Dont you realize the point…How can you expect man to live up to a christian morality when his very evolution of his formation runs completly against it for his own survival. If Macro Evolution is true shown by ida, then you must give up thinking Adultry is something wrong but rather something for the betterment of your offspring since it gives them better survival chances.

Wow, that’s a slippery slope…in the sense of the fallacy “slippery slope.”

God created us. It’s looking very much as if He did it using a process scientists are dubbing ‘evolution.’ God gave us laws to live by, one of which is ‘thou shalt not commit adultery.’ Since God did both, then they are by definition compatible.

Let’s take a look at what adultery does, shall we…people being people? Almost every culture we have studied shows that a child has a better chance of surviving to adulthood if there is a family; male and female role models and care givers. In our modern society perhaps children can physically survive without that, but the damage to the culture that their strange view of it is such that THEIR children have bigger problems even physically surviving, much less thriving.

Similar studies have shown that male/female relationships that respect each other (including the ‘not committing adultery’) part, are smoother and more effective. While the sex drive is important to the continuation of the species, because we keep our kids around longer than any other critter on the planet, the family unit is more important to the survival of the species than the sex drive is.

So…betrayal of that family unit (adultery) is counter-survival. We aren’t all about the passing on of the best genes; we are about training the ones we have already passed on to be worthwhile members of the society we live in. THAT is what ensures our survival.

So…if God didn’t teach us how to live after creating us, how did we figure that out? Further studies have shown that groups who do NOT get that teaching simply die out.

So the atheist would claim that since there is no God, that macro evolution proves that there is no God. Circular reasoning at its best.

The theist who sees the truth in macro evolution understands that it does not in any way disprove a God. The idea of God teaching His children how to deal with the brains He handed them marches very, very well with the idea of Ida.

That moral code has to be TAUGHT, It doesn’t come with the synapses we are born with. God created us, and then saw to it that we were taught. If that were not so, we would be less than the animals who have some instinct to guide them, because—we don’t have any.

 

[dianaiad]

you can’t simply accept the origins of man as being from a Macro Evoltionary process and then claim a morality that is directly oppossed to it. Dont you see the illogical construct your forming there? why the heck is this so hard to get across to you people?

Well, you are begging the question here.

Why would morality be ‘directly opposed to’ macro-evolution?

 

[dianaiad]

Your arguments might carry more weight if you could spell properly.

The word is spelled “adultery.”

And the contraction for “it is” is “it’s”. “Its” is the possessive pronoun and does not contain an apostrophe.

erhmmm…

People who are passionate about their arguments sometimes fail to pay attention to the spell checker. They are more interested in getting their thoughts out than in satisfying the grammar nazis.

Now I will point out spelling errors, but only when the poor speller absolutely knows better, deserves it, and pointing out the error is pertinent to the topic or the person’s attitude. Doing so just because you are picky?

That’s not nice.

That said, this poster’s argument is erroneous–but not because of the spelling!

 

[dianaiad]

You do realize that there is more to natural selection than just having lots and lots of children, right? The children have to be raised in a way that will help them survive. Marriage provides a stable environment so that the children can grow up to be functional adults. If a woman has five children by five different men, she’d be lucky if she would be able to get only two of those guys to come over and help occasionally. The woman and her children would be more likely to have a low income and the children will likely have issues stemming from not having a father. That’s definitely not a good thing.

I said that. Didn’t say that as well as you did, but I said that.

 

[kalt]

Evolution explains how we don’t need God , that its a self sustaining principle. we came about through a evolutionary process in which morality would be a simple hinderance. So adultry should be viewed as a good thing perhaps. Adultry can better ensure the survival of our seed. Marriage doesnt make much sense either, or celibacy.why should we ignore the millions and millions of years of evolutionary buildup in our organism should we not embrace it? this is what we are. Our Ancestors are Monkeys. We are Monkeys then in some sense .

please discuss

Don’t you find it odd that the people here who understand at least a little of evolutionary theory disagree with your entirely on what it means (really doesn’t mean) about morality.

You seem to need to believe that human’s being created for a special purpose isn’t enough. It seems that you need to also believe that we were created in a special (and different) way from all other living things on the planet.

Why does that have to be true? Do you think that God could have created us like he created everything else on the planet?

 

[kalt]

Its not really hard to jump over to atheism once you accept evolution .

Maybe not hard for you. Is that what you’re worried about?

 

[rossum]

If Macro Evolution is true, Should we let the Sin begin?

Please discuss if you agree or disagree.

Disagree. You are confusing “is” with “ought”. Science describes what is. Morality describes what ought to be. We all know only too well that what we actually do often falls short of what we ought to do. “Ought” and “is” are often different and should not be confused.

Historians tell us that Hitler killed six million Jews. Does that mean that historians think that what Hitler did was morally right? Of course not. History is about what “was” happening while morality is about what “ought” to have happened.

Evolution describes what has and is happening. Morality is about what ought to happen. It is an error to confuse the two.

I get my science from evolution and I get my morality from Buddhism. I use the appropriate source depending on what I want to know. I do not read Darwin for morality, I do not read the Tripitaka for a description of how the eye evolved.

rossum

 

[kalt]

If your an ape , the you should have permission to at least act somewhat like an ape, this seems to be reasonable doesnt it?

Perfectly reasonable. We act like homo sapiens, which is what we are. Isn’t it embarrassing sometimes?

The jails are teeming with people who believed in God when they commited the crimes that landed them there.

I’ve yet to meet a gorilla that embarrassed its race, and they pick their noses in public.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Ah, yet another anti-evolution thread by none other than TruthisBeauty. This time I get to add Affirming the Consequent to his/her long list of logical fallacies.

To complement your litany of rhetorical abuses, could you please Poison the Well in your next thread?

Thanks.

 

[kalt]

its not bizare at all and please dont pretend you dont know what im talking about. Evolution holds that we use to be apes before we transformed into homosapiens, so with knowledge we must admit we are a form of a monkey. they are our ancestors as ida points out.

dont call something bizare because you dont want to face the truth.

Cousins, maybe. But not ancestors. The apes are on branches of their own.

 

[dianaiad]

Ah, yet another anti-evolution thread by none other than TruthisBeauty. This time I get to add Affirming the Consequent to his/her long list of logical fallacies.

To complement your litany of rhetorical abuses, could you please Poison the Well in your next thread?

Thanks.

uhm…

he did already.

 

[kalt]

you can’t simply accept the origins of man as being from a Macro Evoltionary process and then claim a morality that is directly oppossed to it. Dont you see the illogical construct your forming there? why the heck is this so hard to get across to you people?

It’s not hard. It’s impossible.

You’re not making sense. You’re wrong. No matter how many threads you start, your premise is still wrong.

Are you afraid that your are losing your faith? If not, why are you so stuck on this Ida creature?

 

[TruthisBeauty7]

Im about to head to church, But all I will say in the time being is your being inconsistent when you hold the origins of man came from evolution but that his morality ought to be something all together different. Its not Congruent. To me if we came from an ape, we need to accept a more animalistic view of morality. you people seem to want your cake and eat it too. I cannot accept this, Im either all in or im not.

Here’s one example using Christianity as an Example.

We are told that Lust is a Sin, How is this a sin when its an embedded evolutionary Survival Mechanism? How could we be held accountable for something that’s been built in 4 million years or so. Do you understand my point when I say your not being congruent?

If I accept Macro Evolution I must Accept either Atheism, deism, aliens made us or an Unjust God or Gods.

 

[kalt]

erhmmm…

People who are passionate about their arguments sometimes fail to pay attention to the spell checker. They are more interested in getting their thoughts out than in satisfying the grammar nazis.

Now I will point out spelling errors, but only when the poor speller absolutely knows better, deserves it, and pointing out the error is pertinent to the topic or the person’s attitude. Doing so just because you are picky?

That’s not nice.

That said, this poster’s argument is erroneous–but not because of the spelling!

And some people are just bad spellers. I know a person who graduated first in his college class but can’t spell. If you read his notes, you would think he was 10th grade drop-out.

 

[kalt]

Im about to head to church, But all I will say in the time being is your being inconsistent when you hold the origins of man came from evolution but that his morality ought to be something all together different. Its not Congruent. To me if we came from an ape, we need to accept a more animalistic view of morality. you people seem to want your cake and eat it too. I cannot accept this, Im either all in or im not.

Here’s one example using Christianity as an Example.

We are told that Lust is a Sin, How is this a sin when its an embedded evolutionary Survival Mechanism? How could we be held accountable for something that’s been built in 4 million years or so. Do you understand my point when I say your not being congruent?

If I accept Macro Evolution I must Accept either Atheism, deism, aliens made us or an Unjust God or Gods.

I think you’re confusing the sex drive, which is not a sin, with lust, which is.

 

[TruthisBeauty7]

Im stuck On Ida because it seems to prove Evolution and for me if i accept Evolution I can no longer be a Christian. Macro Evolution that is . I would probably be some sort of Deist.

 

[dmelosi]

Im stuck On Ida because it seems to prove Evolution and for me if i accept Evolution I can no longer be a Christian. Macro Evolution that is . I would probably be some sort of Deist.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that evolution is untrue.

 

[TruthisBeauty7]

Kalt stop dancing around…

Ok a man has a sex drive where he wants to mate with every attractive woman he see’s. Say Wilt Chamberlin who says he mated with over 10,000 women. Why should he be held accountable for his actions or thoughts if this is part of his evolutionary contruct?

Answer the question dont dance to protect your belief.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Im stuck On Ida because it seems to prove Evolution and for me if i accept Evolution I can no longer be a Christian. Macro Evolution that is . I would probably be some sort of Deist.

Dearest TiB7, I received my BS in Molecular Biology with an emphasis on genetics but two years ago. I’m intimately familiar with evolution as I worked with it on a day to day basis at the handful of internships under which I’ve labored. I long ago fully accepted the theory of organic evolution as correct including but not limited to the explanation of the physical human existence. I am, yet, not only still a Christian, but striving to be a moral Christian.

Could you please explain to me how exactly it is you make the jump from “Evolution is correct” to “Christianity is false” as I’m completely unaware of any such implications in the few years that I’ve worked as a biologist. I would also suspect that Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project would also like to hear from you as he too accepts evolution and is a Christian.

This is a serious request. I wish for nothing more than to be enlightened.