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TruthBearer
Guest
If man is born a sinner, than it is possible for a man to be born gay…
Your thoughts???
Your thoughts???
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catholic1seeks
Guest
Even the Catholic Church is open to homosexuality being innate from birth.
I think that poses troubles for traditional teaching though.
I think that poses troubles for traditional teaching though.
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pete_29
Guest
Even if the Catholic Church is open to the Idea, which I seriously doubt, the Church still sees homosexual acts as a sin. That will never change.
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Corki
Guest
No, it doesn’t pose any trouble. Science, medicine and Church teaching are all in alignment that there are many conditions the are present from birth. In that regard, homosexuality is no different than a child born blind or with a birth defect.
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utah_rose
Guest
With that train of thought, then a person could always be born an alcoholic or a drug addict too. We could all be born with tendencies, but I believe so far science hasn’t found a gay gene. But yes, we are all sinners in one way or another, and in some cases having gay tendencies could be better than the above. We’re all weak and fall into sin of some kind.
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atassina
Guest
**
Please give a reference to this statement.
also,
Please define “. . .is open to . . .”.
Have some nice coffee with the cake.
**
Please give a reference to this statement.
also,
Please define “. . .is open to . . .”.
Have some nice coffee with the cake.
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bobballen_18
Guest
I’m open to the possibility that one can be born with (a) gene(s) that make one more prone toward developing homosexual tendencies, but I personally reject the notion that there is literally a “gay gene”, whereby one is literally born gay. I have heard the argument that, if there was a gay gene, then in cases of identical twins, they would both be gay, but since often a gay identical twin’s twin doesn’t always turn out gay too, I think it is pretty obvious that the general environment, and then especially the family environment are the biggest factors in whether or not one develops homosexual tendencies.
However, in the case that my opinion is incorrect, the statement made by “pete29” regarding the Church’s stance towards homosexual acts would still stand - either way, the Church will always hold homosexual acts to be disordered and grave matter. There is no possibility that the true Church can change this.
However, in the case that my opinion is incorrect, the statement made by “pete29” regarding the Church’s stance towards homosexual acts would still stand - either way, the Church will always hold homosexual acts to be disordered and grave matter. There is no possibility that the true Church can change this.
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Elizium23
Guest
You have no idea what a scientific theory entails.
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Neofight
Guest
[No message]
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Reuben_J
Guest
Perhaps it just mean to have a tendency to homosexuality. It is hard to say when it starts in a person’s life. Most of the time it is acquired - this is from the many cases that I know of where childhood history of a person can be the determining factor.
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Elizium23
Guest
You still clearly don’t know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis. There is no “theory of how dinosaurs died”.
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Neofight
Guest
You are trying to define a scientific term without sufficient understanding of scientific method.
It just doesn’t work.
It would be similar to an Buddhist defining Catholic theology.
Theories never become fact, because there is an impossibility of ever collecting a complete and final data set, but theories are based on a plethora of facts that support the conclusion of the theory even though it might be impossible to collect data points for every possible permeation of an observation, giving reasonable credence to a theory.
[/quote]
It just doesn’t work.
It would be similar to an Buddhist defining Catholic theology.
Theories never become fact, because there is an impossibility of ever collecting a complete and final data set, but theories are based on a plethora of facts that support the conclusion of the theory even though it might be impossible to collect data points for every possible permeation of an observation, giving reasonable credence to a theory.
[/quote]
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Reuben_J
Guest
To put it simply, the two are not of the same category and therefore not related in that manner.
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truetofaith
Guest
If a person is born gay, why would God condemn homosexuality as a sin?
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Memaw
Guest
Man is born with original sin but not one he committed, YET. There are many ways man can sin on his own, including homosexual acts. With God’s help and Grace, we can refuse to sin. HE gave us the Catholic Church and the 7 Sacraments to help us do just that. I thank God every day for my Catholic Faith. A friend of my Grandmother’s brought her into the faith and I thank God for her too. So far we have 2 priests in the family. God Bless, Memaw
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St_Redemption
Guest
Evolution is referred to as theory in the same way as “musical theory” or things of the sort. When scientists use the word “theory” next to evolution, it is not to mean that it is a scientific theory, just as musical theory is not literally a theory. I’m not arguing for evolution here, just giving the scientific mindset of 96% of scientists out there (guestimate)
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St_Redemption
Guest
But the OP is right. It shouldn’t matter to Catholics if they are born that way or not. We are all born sinners. It wouldn’t change anything or make it okay if we found out that people were born that way.
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Reuben_J
Guest
A good one.
A born sinner does not mean he has to stay sinner, he has to live the righteous life by the grace of God. It can be said of a homosexual too. He does not have to commit the homosexual act but abstain from it by the grace of God. God will help us in what he wants us to do.
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Monica444
Guest
People are born with all sorts of quirks, tendencies, feelings, and desires.
But I really don’t like to see people defined as gay, as if it’s the same as having brown eyes. I really feel like it’s a trap that makes people perceive themselves as beholden to or defined by their sexual attractions. And there won’t even be sex and marriage in heaven, so as eternal beings with eternity in our hearts, what a minuscule part of your personhood to define yourself by and wrap your identity around!
That’s what I pray for my gay friends to realize, at least, that God will give them an eternal perspective that will shrink the power of their attractions in light of what God created them to be: an eternal, holy being in friendship with God.
When people talk about “gay” being how God made them, I think it is very important to define what we mean by that. A person’s natural disposition to perhaps not fit in with the pervading cultural stereotype of masculinity or femininity (such as a man being more sensitive and feeling, appreciating the arts, etc.) certainly IS how God made them and should be nourished in a way that glorifies him and avoids sin. That is completely different from homosexual attractions that are in conflict with being in harmony with God and a sin when embraced and acted on.
I do believe Satan deceives people by confusing these two things.
I would say to the gay person who wants to follow Christ that in light of eternity and the brevity of your life on earth your sexual desires are a small thing to give up in order to be in friendship with Christ. When there won’t even be romantic relationships in eternity at all. And who of us is guaranteed a life’s partner, even among the heterosexual? Is it any more fair for the straight person who never finds a spouse to be asked to lay down their sexual desires than it is for the gay person?
But I really don’t like to see people defined as gay, as if it’s the same as having brown eyes. I really feel like it’s a trap that makes people perceive themselves as beholden to or defined by their sexual attractions. And there won’t even be sex and marriage in heaven, so as eternal beings with eternity in our hearts, what a minuscule part of your personhood to define yourself by and wrap your identity around!
That’s what I pray for my gay friends to realize, at least, that God will give them an eternal perspective that will shrink the power of their attractions in light of what God created them to be: an eternal, holy being in friendship with God.
When people talk about “gay” being how God made them, I think it is very important to define what we mean by that. A person’s natural disposition to perhaps not fit in with the pervading cultural stereotype of masculinity or femininity (such as a man being more sensitive and feeling, appreciating the arts, etc.) certainly IS how God made them and should be nourished in a way that glorifies him and avoids sin. That is completely different from homosexual attractions that are in conflict with being in harmony with God and a sin when embraced and acted on.
I do believe Satan deceives people by confusing these two things.
I would say to the gay person who wants to follow Christ that in light of eternity and the brevity of your life on earth your sexual desires are a small thing to give up in order to be in friendship with Christ. When there won’t even be romantic relationships in eternity at all. And who of us is guaranteed a life’s partner, even among the heterosexual? Is it any more fair for the straight person who never finds a spouse to be asked to lay down their sexual desires than it is for the gay person?
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ericc
Guest
Being born a sinner is normal. He tells us not to sin. If one is inclined towards one particular sin, the cross is much heavier for that particular challenge. There are some that has a propensity to lie, others to steal or shoplift. Others to fornicate.
If you look at Leviticus 18, God has defined what sexual sin is. Sex with same sex, animals, family members are all prohibited. If a person is born disordered in some way, would that excuse him to do those acts? Born destructive, born amorous or amoral, any disorder can arise. Divine laws are there to prohibit and discouraged those acts. Secular laws are similarly designed to protect society although mercy is dispensed for those disadvantaged but not condoned or approved.
Being born a sinner is no justification to commit sin. Can you special plead homosexuality? One can make a case for other sins as well. Perhaps there is an anti-God gene in atheists. Or a gene that enjoy causing hurt and grievous harm to others and so on. Can Hitler or Stalin claim a genetic trait that support their actions? The list is endless and you will realize that special pleading will not be for the greater good for society.
If homosexuality is a (assume) treatable disorder, but one claims right of refusal for treatment, would your argument still holds?
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