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followingtheway
Guest
Why do we allow infertile/sterile people to get married?
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1ke
Guest
Marriage is ordered to both procreation and unity of spouses.
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sw85
Guest
As 1ke said, marriage and the sexual act are ordered toward procreation – meaning that is their natural end. It does not require that that end be successfully realized, only that the couple be capable of behaving in a manner conducive to procreation. This is why eunuchs and those paralyzed below the waist may not marry.
That said, note that concealment of infertility is grounds for annulment.
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Sarahforgiven
Guest
This thread makes me think of Abram & Sarai before they were Abraham & Sarah. God is in charge 
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oneofmany
Guest
Saying those who are paralyzed from the waist down cannot be married is so wrong in my opinion. Do they mean just men or also women?
Paralyzed women can have sexual relations and conceive you know. I also think medical science can now extract semen from a paralyzed man and if the man can use it on his wife I don’t know how wrong that can be. They could be parents just fine.
Also, how can older couples or those sterile marry but not those who are paralyzed ?
Paralyzed women can have sexual relations and conceive you know. I also think medical science can now extract semen from a paralyzed man and if the man can use it on his wife I don’t know how wrong that can be. They could be parents just fine.
Also, how can older couples or those sterile marry but not those who are paralyzed ?
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Kit15
Guest
It’s not paralysis but impotence…and permanent, incurable, impotence at that. Some are made impotent by paralysis but paralysis itself is not the deal breaker.
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oneofmany
Guest
So if a paralyzed person can prove they are not impotent by a doctor, than they can marry? Medical science has come vary far in helping people in all kinds of disabilities to overcome them and be as normal as possible.
I understand in vitro is not allowed or I would have done it but that may not even be involved with some paralysis. Plus you have lots of older-post menopausal women who marry or remarry after a spouse dies. Are you saying they should never marry? How about those women who have had a hysterectomy?
I understand in vitro is not allowed or I would have done it but that may not even be involved with some paralysis. Plus you have lots of older-post menopausal women who marry or remarry after a spouse dies. Are you saying they should never marry? How about those women who have had a hysterectomy?
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Sarahforgiven
Guest
Yes this seems strange, what about illness that causes the wife to be sterile or the husband to be impotent? Is the marriage no longer of value?
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oneofmany
Guest
Makes me wonder as well. There are many illnesses that make people infertile. Even mumps for men when they were younger. I think if these people go to a priest they would be told it was ok to marry, I don’t see why not, they can adopt.
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Abu
Guest
catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/canonlaw.htm
CHAPTER III: INDIVIDUAL DIRIMENT IMPEDIMENTS (Code of canon Law, 1983)
Canon 1084.1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.
Canon 1084.2 If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether the doubt be one of law or one of fact, the marriage is not to be prevented nor, while the doubt persists, is it to be declared null.
Canon 1084.3 Without prejudice to the provisions of canon 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage.
In *Casti Connubii *(II, 59), 1930, Pope Pius XI teaches on timing, or infertile impediments within marriage:
“Nor are those considered as acting against nature who in the married state use their right in the proper manner although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth. For in matrimony as well as in the use of the matrimonial rights there are also secondary ends, such as mutual aid, the cultivating of mutual love, and the quieting of concupiscence which husband and wife are not forbidden to consider so long as they are subordinated to the primary end and so long as the intrinsic nature of the act is preserved.”
CHAPTER III: INDIVIDUAL DIRIMENT IMPEDIMENTS (Code of canon Law, 1983)
Canon 1084.1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.
Canon 1084.2 If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether the doubt be one of law or one of fact, the marriage is not to be prevented nor, while the doubt persists, is it to be declared null.
Canon 1084.3 Without prejudice to the provisions of canon 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage.
In *Casti Connubii *(II, 59), 1930, Pope Pius XI teaches on timing, or infertile impediments within marriage:
“Nor are those considered as acting against nature who in the married state use their right in the proper manner although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth. For in matrimony as well as in the use of the matrimonial rights there are also secondary ends, such as mutual aid, the cultivating of mutual love, and the quieting of concupiscence which husband and wife are not forbidden to consider so long as they are subordinated to the primary end and so long as the intrinsic nature of the act is preserved.”
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willofgods
Guest
We see cases of sterility in the Bible more than once:
We know that “…]Abram’s wife …]Sarai was barren…]” (Genesis 11:29-30), but when Sara was 90 years old, Abraham is asked, “Is there any thing hard to God? …] Sara shall have a son.” (Genesis 18:11-14)
Genesis 25:21 “And Isaac besought the Lord for his wife, because she was barren; and he heard him, and made Rebecca to conceive.”
Rachel was childless for many years, before God blessed her with children. (Genesis 30:22-23)
Though she was barren, God gave the wife of Manue a son: Samson. (Judges 13:2-3&24)
Elizabeth was old before she had a son: John the Baptist. (Luke 1:7&13)
Of course, God doesn’t give children to every couple, but if a couple is open to having a child, I see no reason for a marriage not to be possible, and subsequently valid, irregardless of fertility.
We know that “…]Abram’s wife …]Sarai was barren…]” (Genesis 11:29-30), but when Sara was 90 years old, Abraham is asked, “Is there any thing hard to God? …] Sara shall have a son.” (Genesis 18:11-14)
Genesis 25:21 “And Isaac besought the Lord for his wife, because she was barren; and he heard him, and made Rebecca to conceive.”
Rachel was childless for many years, before God blessed her with children. (Genesis 30:22-23)
Though she was barren, God gave the wife of Manue a son: Samson. (Judges 13:2-3&24)
Elizabeth was old before she had a son: John the Baptist. (Luke 1:7&13)
The Bible shows us that God can bless any married couple with a child, regardless of the state of their bodies.
Of course, God doesn’t give children to every couple, but if a couple is open to having a child, I see no reason for a marriage not to be possible, and subsequently valid, irregardless of fertility.
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oneofmany
Guest
Well that is a load off my mind. It seemed so cruel. There is more to marriage than just having children. Granted, having children is the most important but after they grow up, then what?
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
This whole thing is ridiculous.
And they wonder why people are bailing out of the CC left and right because of all these stupid (yes, I said “stupid”) rules.
If two (hetero) people are in love they should be allowed to get married. Period. Even if they cannot procreate, at least they can be an example to the rest of the world on the sanctity of marriage.
And they wonder why people are bailing out of the CC left and right because of all these stupid (yes, I said “stupid”) rules.
If two (hetero) people are in love they should be allowed to get married. Period. Even if they cannot procreate, at least they can be an example to the rest of the world on the sanctity of marriage.
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Newbie2
Guest
Two hetero people who cannot procreate ARE allowed to get married:
Canon 1084.3 Without prejudice to the provisions of canon 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage.
…if they are capable of consumating the marriage through (even “sterile”) sexual intercourse.
You need to be more precise in how you condemn the Church’s “stupid” rules.
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1ke
Guest
Permanent impotence is an impediment to valid marriage. The example of paralysis was a generalization, as you rightly point out some paralyzed people can have intercourse. If a person can have intercourse, as you describe above, them they can marry. Yes, today there are many technologies to assist those with impotence. However, artificial insemination is immoral, that cannot substitute for the ability to have intercourse and is never s moral option for conceiving chidden.
Again, sterility is not an impediment because a person can exchange the marital right to intercourse while an impotent person cannot. See canon 1084 of the Code of Canon Law:
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Y.HTM
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1ke
Guest
Post menopausal women and those who have had a hysterectomy are not impotent.
They have no impediment to marriage.
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1ke
Guest
Sterility is NOT an impediment to contracting a marriage.
Impotence is an impediment to contracting a marriage.
These are two different things.
As to a person who becomes impotent after marriage due to illness, age, disease, accident, etc, this has no bearing on their marriage. It is antecedent impotence that creates an impediment to entering a marriage. The person did not have such an impediment when they married so they are in a valid marriage.
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1ke
Guest
For the umpteenth time…Sterility is NOT an impediment to marriage. Sterility and impotence are two different things.
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1ke
Guest
It is not a “stupid rule”. Impotence is a divine law impediment to marriage.
Sterility is NOT.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Then if they can’t get married, can they at least live together, sharing the economy of food and housing? I heard that they can’t even do that - which makes no sense to me. If two people are permanently incapable of having sex, then living together is no temptation for fornication, since such a thing is impossible for them. It would be exactly like living as brother and sister, which is allowed.
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