If masturbation is a grave sin, why isn't gluttony as well?

[crazzeto]

I don’t see anything about masturbation there.

The Church is the upholder and defender of the faith, next we have:

Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Next:

Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Next:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.shtml

Lastly:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html IX

 

[TedDC]

The Church is the upholder and defender of the faith, next we have:

Next:

Next:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.shtml

Lastly:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html IX

My statement was: “I have never seen a convincing explanation, which doesn’t make reference to Church teaching or the Church’s interpretation of natural law, as to why masturbation is inherently wrong.”

 

[crazzeto]

My statement was: “I have never seen a convincing explanation, which doesn’t make reference to Church teaching or the Church’s interpretation of natural law, as to why masturbation is inherently wrong.”

Christ identified with the Apostles so closely he said “he that hears you, hears me”… that’s pretty close, and it must mean one and only one thing. The Apostles must not be teaching error, we know from the bible that the Apostles passed on their authority.

But Jesus goes on, “he who rejects you, rejects me”, and one chapter earlier he tells them:

4 And whatsoever house you shall enter into, abide there, and depart not from thence.

5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off even the dust of your feet, for a testimony against them.

This is a powerful condemnation of those who reject the Apostles and their teachings.

 

[TedDC]

Christ identified with the Apostles so closely he said “he that hears you, hears me”… that’s pretty close, and it must mean one and only one thing. The Apostles must not be teaching error, we know from the bible that the Apostles passed on their authority.

But Jesus goes on, “he who rejects you, rejects me”, and one chapter earlier he tells them:

This is a powerful condemnation of those who reject the Apostles and their teachings.

In other words, masturbation is only wrong because the Church says it’s wrong?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Given the high percentage of the population that’s obese ~30%, last I heard], I would assume that, if gluttony were a mortal sin, there would be more posts about it here. I mean, masturbation sometimes gets multiple threads in a single day. By comparison I’ve seen very few threads about overeating.

Not all who are obese participate in gluttony. There are many out there who have gladular problems, or eat moderatly but choose bad foods. If one eats moderately, but chooses high-calorie foods, they will gain weight.

And of course, there are some people out there (myself included) who suffer from eating disorders and have either a messed up metabolism that causes crazy weight gain from past bouts with anorexia or bulimia, or have an ongoing problem where they purge for weeks or months on end, then eat in moderation and pack on the pounds from the damage done to their bodies.

Point is, you have NO Idea why someone may be overweight, so NEVER, ever, ever judge.

 

[crazzeto]

In other words, masturbation is only wrong because the Church says it’s wrong?

The Church says it is wrong, and they do not say this for no good reason (have you read the linked documents?)… You can trust the Church because of the previously posted, as well as

Joh 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.

 

[whm]

My statement was: “I have never seen a convincing explanation, which doesn’t make reference to Church teaching or the Church’s interpretation of natural law, as to why masturbation is inherently wrong.”

How about for a quote Mathew 5:30

“And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.”

As far as arguments apart from Church teaching -

What goes through ones mind when doing this act? How does it make the do’er view other people? In my own experience and in communicating with others. Adult who m___, require fantasy images to do this. They visually use other human beings and store their imagines in their mind to do this. They do not treat the people they use with the respect they deserve. The people they use would most likely not appreciate their image to be utilized in this way.

It also creates a very selfish view of sex that can be detrimental to any future married relationship. The selfish aspect of it is a good tie into the OP’s question related gluttony to lust.

 

[Ron_Conte]

gluttony can also be understood as including any type of greedy consumption, not only of food and drink, but of products – a type of consumerism taken to the extreme of idolatry.

 

[Dorothy]

And furthermore, gluttony causes far greater harm to the individual (and often to his family, and society in general) than masturbation, which is essentially harmless in moderation for a single, unattached person. I think some of the disparity simply reflects the peculiar emphasis that the Catholic Church places on sexual matters.

How can you state that it is “essentially harmless in moderation for a single,unattached person.” ?
The Church’s teachings on faith and morals is correct, and for our sanctification. These moral directives are in place because God loves us and desires our salvation. It would be helpful for you to read about “The Theology of the Body”, and you will see the wonder and beauty of sex that God created, since you think that the Catholic Church places “peculiar emphasis on sexual matters.”

Self-gratification is certainly harmful. It is about seeking sexual pleasure outside of marriage. It sets a bad habit in place because in marriage sexual relations is not just all about self-gratification, but a holy self-giving act ordained by God for procreation, and the unity of the couple.

 

[TedDC]

gluttony can also be understood as including any type of greedy consumption, not only of food and drink, but of products – a type of consumerism taken to the extreme of idolatry.

Yes, good point. In fact that’s probably the most common form of gluttony in the developed world today.

But please, don’t tell anyone - you’ll destroy Apple’s business model

 

[TedDC]

How can you state that it is “essentially harmless in moderation for a single,unattached person.” ?
The Church’s teachings on faith and morals is correct, and for our sanctification. These moral directives are in place because God loves us and desires our salvation. It would be helpful for you to read about “The Theology of the Body”, and you will see the wonder and beauty of sex that God created, since you think that the Catholic Church places “peculiar emphasis on sexual matters.”

Self-gratification is certainly harmful. It is about seeking sexual pleasure outside of marriage. It sets a bad habit in place because in marriage sexual relations is not just all about self-gratification, but a holy self-giving act ordained by God for procreation, and the unity of the couple.

As so many others do, you’re merely citing Church teachings, which are inherently declarative rather than explanatory. Everyone is entitled to his/her own beliefs, of course, but without citing objective evidence as to why masturbation is wrong, there isn’t much possibility of an intelligent discussion.

 

[whm]

As so many others do, you’re merely citing Church teachings, which are inherently declarative rather than explanatory. Everyone is entitled to his/her own beliefs, of course, but without citing objective evidence as to why masturbation is wrong, there isn’t much possibility of an intelligent discussion.

Ted, to expand on my previous post, which included non-Church related reasons why m___ is objectively wrong. Another thing to consider is the porn industry. This industry’s primary purpose is to feed the m___ habit. It exploits women and men. It destroys marriages and spawns sexual deviants.

 

[presidentjlh]

Ted, to expand on my previous post, which included non-Church related reasons why m___ is objectively wrong. Another thing to consider is the porn industry. This industry’s primary purpose is to feed the m___ habit. It exploits women and men. It destroys marriages and spawns sexual deviants.

While it is true the pornography industry feeds the habit of masturbation (why are we censoring out the word? Call it what it is.), their primary purpose is to make money. This is still horrible, as it is using the gift of sex as a means of acquiring worldly goods, a definite wrong.

I’m not saying the pornography industry isn’t destructive to people, but its primary purpose isn’t to get people to masturbate. They don’t care if people masturbate or not, as long as they are making money.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not all who are obese participate in gluttony. There are many out there who have gladular problems, or eat moderatly but choose bad foods. If one eats moderately, but chooses high-calorie foods, they will gain weight.

And of course, there are some people out there (myself included) who suffer from eating disorders and have either a messed up metabolism that causes crazy weight gain from past bouts with anorexia or bulimia, or have an ongoing problem where they purge for weeks or months on end, then eat in moderation and pack on the pounds from the damage done to their bodies.

Point is, you have NO Idea why someone may be overweight, so NEVER, ever, ever judge.

Interesting, and I agree. My daughter is writing a thesis for her Masters’ degree program on teenage obesity. Part of her framework is medical, but it’s interwoven with a particular existentialist philosophical system to formulate a holistic approach. Interestingly, it is not infrequently the case that medical approaches can actually exacerbate some of the myriad of causes and consequences of obesity.

 

[Janet_S]

I agree that obesity can have causes beyond gluttony, but I also propose that gluttony-caused obesity affects a significant portion of the population. However, I hear very little, if anything, from the Catholic Church about this issue. If indeed gluttony is a mortal sin, this seems very weird.

It’s definitely a sin, and I heard a sermon about it only once. We should probably emphasize it more.

 

[Janet_S]

I have never seen a convincing explanation, which doesn’t make reference to Church teaching or the Church’s interpretation of natural law, as to why masturbation is inherently wrong.

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, and psychologist Sigmund Freud thought masturbation was wrong.

Only recently have people accepted masturbation and even encouraged it. It has not always been so, as evidenced by the examples above, and neither of them based their arguments on religion. Both were enemies of the Catholic Church.

 

[whm]

While it is true the pornography industry feeds the habit of masturbation (why are we censoring out the word? Call it what it is.), their primary purpose is to make money. This is still horrible, as it is using the gift of sex as a means of acquiring worldly goods, a definite wrong.

I’m not saying the pornography industry isn’t destructive to people, but its primary purpose isn’t to get people to masturbate. They don’t care if people masturbate or not, as long as they are making money.

Ok fine, the people running the industry’s business model is to exploit addiction to sexual impurity to make money. I personally sensor the word in threads were people make excuses to masturbate or view porn, so that some poor soul doesn’t lock onto one spurious post and use it for justification.

From a spiritual perspective, the primary purpose of the industry is to destroy souls and hurt as many people as possible.

 

[Dorothy]

As so many others do, you’re merely citing Church teachings, which are inherently declarative rather than explanatory. Everyone is entitled to his/her own beliefs, of course, but without citing objective evidence as to why masturbation is wrong, there isn’t much possibility of an intelligent discussion.

I thought I did give good reason, but I am sure there is some writings somewhere that can explain it better than I could.

It is also possible that you do not want to hear this, and that no matter what was said you would find a way to disagree with it, no matter how intelligent the discussion.

I don’t know anything more intelligent than Pope John Paul’s “Theology of the Body,” with regard to sexuality. And I am sure there is much more to discover from other writers who agree that what the Church teaches with regards to faith and morals is for our own good.

Your acceptance or non-acceptance is your free-will choice.

 

[Janet_S]

Another good argument against masturbation: read the online Jan 2010 Playboy interview with John Mayer.

 

[CD_Michels]

I think it is great that you started this thread!!
It is pretty clear (even by how many people try to get this thread off topic) that the reason it is not talked about more, is people don’t want to talk about it.

I think gluttony effects as many or more people then masturbation and needs to be brought to light. Just to clarify, gluttony is a sin, not being fat.

The reason people don’t like to talk about gluttony as a sin, is they don’t want to admit to themselves that they are sinning in this way. Gluttony is a Capital Sin! Many, many, many people are addicted to food, drink, and drugs. Eating for pleasure is no better than having sex only for pleasure.** If you eat after you are full, there is no other reason to keep eating other than you enjoy it.** Getting drunk is also gluttony. If you are drinking for the purpose of getting drunk, you are sinning. Now, obviously there are varying degrees of severity of the sin (whether you intended to get drunk or not). However, one cannot drink a half dozen drinks and say, “oops, I didn’t mean to get drunk.” Though if after having a couple drinks you find yourself intoxicated since they were stronger than you thought, and decide to stop drinking at that point, you would be fine.

C.S. Lewis also talks about the different types of gluttony including those that insist on eating only the finest foods as a form of gluttony even though they are not overeating. Since again, this is not eating for nourishment, but for pleasure.